What do you consider a putt?

[denny ritner]

I agree with what somebody else said about this quote, when climo was in his prime this was probably fairly accurate. Climo was no slouch when it came to putting, he was a good putter, BUT Mcbeth, Wysocki, Locastro, and a few others have surpassed what Climo used to do as far as putting goes. Those guys have raised the bar to the point where their competitors NEED to be hitting 80%(at least) of the putts from 50' and in to stay in the game. it is just unreal watching them nailing these long putts as if they were only 20 feet away.

I agree with this, but also think that Kenny's style may have developed differently if he had been a contemporary of the younger guys mentioned. Kenny is a dedicated, competitive athlete and developed his game to win. The baskets that he competed on early in his career required a more lofted, conservative putting style for maximum success.

I think it's great for the game that we get to witness shots like Ricky's winning putt at The Master's Cup more frequently.

 

[grotto]

Pretty much anything out to around 60ft where I'm trying to can it with a putting stance is called a putt for me.

If my intent is to just get it close, it's a layup.

 

[SD86]

They call it a jump/step "putt" from even over 100 ft. away. But for statistical purposes, it'd have to be within the 10m circle...

 

[Smigles]

Inside the circle.

 

[Hampstead]

I rarely play courses that have a painted circle and I don't feel the need to measure each putt. If I'm putting then it is a putt. Pretty simple, really.

 

[ohtobediscing]

Its a putt if I'm inside the 10m circle.

Or if I'm in my putting stance.

Or if I throw my putter at all, even if it looks like a 245' drive from the tee.

 

[bradharris]

I certainly understand this POV. But to expand on the discussion, to have comparable stats across the sport what defines a putt needs to be standard. I don't think DG will ever be as stats driven as other sports, but for example slugging %, WHIP, VORP are all standardized so you can compare players across the league and decades.

The original question had nothing to do with comparing across the sport. It's a question of what number to putt in the box for "putts."

This discussion has already shown that any standardized stats regarding putting are not going to be particularly useful anyway because there isn't a very clear dividing line between fairway and green.

Putting stats in disc golf are just a way to shoehorn a ball golf stat into the game where it just doesn't fit very well.

 

[SD86]

Putting stats in disc golf are just a way to shoehorn a ball golf stat into the game where it just doesn't fit very well.

:clap: :thmbup:

Totally agree. I understand the attempt to make stats for the game, as the Sports Media believes stats are important for the viewers. But what they're presently doing for DG stats is not going to work very well. The data itself is pretty worthless, IMHO, and does not add to the viewing experience (again JMHO). We'll see if this changes over time.

 

[swoodstingray]

You must be playing some boring courses. My intent to throw into the basket vs. laying up has a lot to do with lines & the green, not just distance.

If I'm looking 50' downhill to this pin:

...you better believe I'm laying it up. Sorry for padding my ego, but in my defense it will also lower my score 19 times out of 20.

Where is this basket?
I want to go there

 

[SonicGuy]

I agree with what somebody else said about this quote, when climo was in his prime this was probably fairly accurate. Climo was no slouch when it came to putting, he was a good putter, BUT Mcbeth, Wysocki, Locastro, and a few others have surpassed what Climo used to do as far as putting goes. Those guys have raised the bar to the point where their competitors NEED to be hitting 80%(at least) of the putts from 50' and in to stay in the game. it is just unreal watching them nailing these long putts as if they were only 20 feet away.

I agree with this, but also think that Kenny's style may have developed differently if he had been a contemporary of the younger guys mentioned. Kenny is a dedicated, competitive athlete and developed his game to win. The baskets that he competed on early in his career required a more lofted, conservative putting style for maximum success.

I think it's great for the game that we get to witness shots like Ricky's winning putt at The Master's Cup more frequently.

80% from 50'??? You have got to be kidding me. No way that anyone makes that % of putts from 50' on a regular basis.

Honestly I blame our ground level videography. Current production of tournament footage makes a putt look literally twice as long as it actually is. Watching the pros live makes you realize how the putts actually look.

When watching footage remember that the circle is 11-12 strides from the basket. Notice how the majority of "great" putting moments only require around 12 strides for the person to go collect the disc. that 50' putt is really 30'.

 

[dashiellx]

80% from 50'??? You have got to be kidding me. No way that anyone makes that % of putts from 50' on a regular basis.

Honestly I blame our ground level videography. Current production of tournament footage makes a putt look literally twice as long as it actually is. Watching the pros live makes you realize how the putts actually look.

When watching footage remember that the circle is 11-12 strides from the basket. Notice how the majority of "great" putting moments only require around 12 strides for the person to go collect the disc. that 50' putt is really 30'.

So TV adds 10 pounds and 20 feet.

 

[Pwingles]

So I was out playing a round yesterday, trying out the UDisc app on my phone, and saw that there was a function for recording the number of putts you took on each hole. I thought "oh, that's helpful for some analysis later". After the hole I realized that I hadn't ever really considered what my definition of a putt actually was.

What spurred this thought was on hole 1 my drive fell about 80 feet short of the basket, I used my putter, in my putting stance and stroke, and threw towards the basket (and missed), then cleaned up for par. I opened the app and went to record my score and number of putts, then stood there for a second to think before snapping back to reality with the dog biting at his leash because we weren't moving yet.

Now, I would consider a 35 ft shot a putt..a 40 ft shot a putt...but where would I stop calling it that? Logic tells me that if use my putting stance and stroke, then that is a putt. Then again, I can use a stance or throw type qualifier to describe a number of shots, including a putt. For instance, I can throw a forehand putt, a jump putt, etc. I can also throw a putter, in putting stance, off a tee pad..Or, I can "putt" using a driver. This line of thought leads me to question my own logic on what to call a putt. Maybe it's simply a combination of factors of stance, grip, lie, disc and probability that I make the shot, that affects what I consider a putt (I ended up calling the 80 ft shot on #1 a putt in the app).

Maybe there is a clearly written definition somewhere in the PDGA rules, but I certainly haven't been playing all these years saying "well that's not a putt, but this is..", I've just been going out and playing!

But, If I miss that 80 footer like I did yesterday, obviously i'm telling my group it was an "up-shot" .

What is your definition of a putt?

anything inside the circle is a putt per the pdga, everything else is a throw

 

[davetherocketguy]

In leagues once I set up a longest putt on one of the holes. Someone asked this very question...what is a putt? To keep things as simple as humanly possible I just said anything that goes into the basket which isn't your tee shot.

 

[ThrowBot]

Where is this basket?
I want to go there

Yes you do! That is hole 9 Green at Diamond X in Billings, MT. The park is closed right now due to a large rock falling down a cliff recently (imagine that) but the city is talking about re-opening soon if they can get the geology relatively stabilized.

If you plan a trip out in this direction, PM me and I can show you around the course.

In leagues once I set up a longest putt on one of the holes. Someone asked this very question...what is a putt? To keep things as simple as humanly possible I just said anything that goes into the basket which isn't your tee shot.

Yeah, "longest putt" formats are weird. If you really want to win one, it incentivizes you to lay up outside of where the current "longest putt" was thrown. (If you miss that attempt, just throw back out and try again!) It's a far cry from typical golf logic.

We did one a few years back for our SOULstice tournament, and I wound up acing the hole. I won the prize but I can't say that throw was really a putt by most definitions.

 

[SD86]

Honestly I blame our ground level videography. Current production of tournament footage makes a putt look literally twice as long as it actually is. Watching the pros live makes you realize how the putts actually look.

When watching footage remember that the circle is 11-12 strides from the basket. Notice how the majority of "great" putting moments only require around 12 strides for the person to go collect the disc. that 50' putt is really 30'.

I agree with this. It is difficult to get distance perspective in the videos. The different heights of the players add to this difficulty in judging perspective (compare and contrast Big Jerm to Paige Bjerkas (sp?)).

Having said that, McBeth is still canning a lot of outside-the-circle putts, and Wisocky and Lizotte have improved their long-putt game, as well...

 

[SonicGuy]

I agree with this. It is difficult to get distance perspective in the videos. The different heights of the players add to this difficulty in judging perspective (compare and contrast Big Jerm to Paige Bjerkas (sp?)).

Having said that, McBeth is still canning a lot of outside-the-circle putts, and Wisocky and Lizotte have improved their long-putt game, as well...

Oh for sure, and they are canning a much greater percentage of those putts than non-elite pros. I think they also put a better line on the putts that miss, so they hit metal more often. If you watch fringe touring pros putt they often throw up some embarrassing airmail putts from beyond the circle.

 

[davetherocketguy]

Yeah, "longest putt" formats are weird. If you really want to win one, it incentivizes you to lay up outside of where the current "longest putt" was thrown. (If you miss that attempt, just throw back out and try again!) It's a far cry from typical golf logic.

I've never seen someone do that. Pretty freaking cheesy if you ask me. It would be pretty simple to implement a rule which stated something along the line of you get one shot at longest putt or some such thing worded better than what I can think of at the moment.

 

[ERicJ]

Yeah, "longest putt" formats are weird. If you really want to win one, it incentivizes you to lay up outside of where the current "longest putt" was thrown. (If you miss that attempt, just throw back out and try again!) It's a far cry from typical golf logic.

I've never seen someone do that. Pretty freaking cheesy if you ask me. It would be pretty simple to implement a rule which stated something along the line of you get one shot at longest putt or some such thing worded better than what I can think of at the moment.

I've done "longest putt" holes in tournaments before. It's not a stand alone competition, it's done as part of the round. So you still have every incentive to try and card the best score possible on the hole. It just gives an award to whoever makes the longest shot into the basket on a specified hole.

 

[ODRB]

I'd LOVE to play Diamond X except for three things:
1) Montana sucks;
2) brentjacobs; and,
3) ThrowBot.

 

[ThrowBot]

I've never seen someone do that. Pretty freaking cheesy if you ask me. It would be pretty simple to implement a rule which stated something along the line of you get one shot at longest putt or some such thing worded better than what I can think of at the moment.

Yeah, I agree. That would be a reasonable rule, but you lose the chance to see someone throw their round away chasing the elusive Longest "Putt"

I've done "longest putt" holes in tournaments before. It's not a stand alone competition, it's done as part of the round. So you still have every incentive to try and card the best score possible on the hole. It just gives an award to whoever makes the longest shot into the basket on a specified hole.

I guess if you were on the bottom card with little chance of moving up, you might be incentivized to do weird things so that you could win something.

I'd LOVE to play Diamond X except for three things:
1) Montana sucks;
2) brentjacobs; and,
3) ThrowBot.

All solid points, David. It's probably for the best if you don't play Diamond X anyway; it has a funny way of eating up people's spin-dyed zones...