What I learned (maybe) at a clinic

[timothy42b]

I attended a clinic taught by Scott Stokely this week. We had about 10 students on a weekday so he spent quite a bit of time with each of over a three hour period.

What he told me to do seems very different from what I've been trying to learn from the videos and drills here on Technique and Strategy. I say seems because it may be the same principles with different language, or just my misunderstanding.

I'm going to post a video showing myself doing it first his way to the best of my ability after two days, and then showing my old sequence turning back while planting. It's not smooth, he recommended not trying to blend the motions right away until you were sure you were planting before throwing. So I'm exaggerating the careful four step process.

The things he made me do: stand upright, no hyzer lean. Use three steps, not standstill. The first step is a short load of the front foot, the second step is step behind with the back foot, the third step plants, and then be careful not to start the throw until fully planted. The reachback happens during back foot move rather than the plant foot. This results in a much more rotated hip turn on the back swing than I've been doing.

Here it is:


That throw went about 185 with an Aviar. Second throw pretty close also.

 

[scooby snack]

Stokely knows his stuff. You can't go wrong following his advice.

If you were lucky enough to attend one if his clinics, follow his advice and put in the fieldwork. You'll see results if you stick with it.

 

[timothy42b]

He wants a straight pull and a vertical torso. And, of course, insists on the plant before the pull.

That's very different from the new series by HUB - or is it?

At any rate, I'm trying to give his stuff a fair shot. I haven't made a lot of progress with my throw lately.

I think he's simplifying mechanics to be accessible to beginners. I'd like to know what he works on.

 

[seedlings]

He wants a straight pull and a vertical torso. And, of course, insists on the plant before the pull.

That's very different from the new series by HUB - or is it?

At any rate, I'm trying to give his stuff a fair shot. I haven't made a lot of progress with my throw lately.

I think he's simplifying mechanics to be accessible to beginners. I'd like to know what he works on.

There are stylistic variations on how to get to the pocket (Seppo, Tristian Tanner vs Wysocki vs Oakley). But, there are consistencies through and out of the pocket.

 

[scooby snack]

He wants a straight pull and a vertical torso. And, of course, insists on the plant before the pull.

Planting before the pull delays the swing, which is what you want.

 

[drk_evns]

Not only must you plant before you pull, but you must also fully shift your weight to your front foot with your spine stacked behind it. He's also right that you should be standing up pretty straight.

HOWEVER, you're thinking WAY too hard when you throw. It's unbelievably clunky and I don't think you'll learn well that way. It certainly isn't helping your muscle memory.

Stokely clearly knows what he's doing, but based on your video I would personally recommend practicing the one leg drill as opposed to the shortened walk-up. I disagree with his statement that you do not need to string the moves together until later. It doesn't really work that way. Each of the movements build upon each other and they're happening simultaneously (equal and opposite motions all over the place).

 

[timothy42b]

Stokely clearly knows what he's doing, but based on your video I would personally recommend practicing the one leg drill as opposed to the shortened walk-up. I disagree with his statement that you do not need to string the moves together until later. It doesn't really work that way. Each of the movements build upon each other and they're happening simultaneously (equal and opposite motions all over the place).

Yes, there are several things that are confusing me about the way he teaches as opposed to the way people discuss here, and I'm not sure what are real differences and some just another way to look at it.

One of the comments sidewinder made on one of my throws over in Form Analysis is that I was moving from position to position stopping instead of one complete swing. I will say that I exaggerated this a little bit in what I shared here. I did notice I was not getting all the way onto the plant even though I was pretty sure I was.

The next thing two things that confused me, and they're related, is that Stokely had me turn all the way back so my hips were square away from target line, rather than mostly in line with target like in the Paige videos, and that he had me reach back while doing the back foot step rather than simultaneous with the plant foot moving forward.

And the third thing is pulling on a straight line when there must really be an arc.

One thing that seemed more understandable is if you do the full turn, and pull in a straight line with a neutral disc, your hand is forced to be on the outside of the disc. I'm not sure I've been doing that at all.

Yesterday's best throw was 220 with an Aviar.

 

[azplaya25]

Not only must you plant before you pull, but you must also fully shift your weight to your front foot with your spine stacked behind it. He's also right that you should be standing up pretty straight.

HOWEVER, you're thinking WAY too hard when you throw. It's unbelievably clunky and I don't think you'll learn well that way. It certainly isn't helping your muscle memory.

Stokely clearly knows what he's doing, but based on your video I would personally recommend practicing the one leg drill as opposed to the shortened walk-up. I disagree with his statement that you do not need to string the moves together until later. It doesn't really work that way. Each of the movements build upon each other and they're happening simultaneously (equal and opposite motions all over the place).

Totally agree with this, and to add, once you build muscle memory, it's really hard to unlearn. I've been filming myself in a field for months and I'm getting way better but it takes a lot of work to convince your body not to swing until you are completely balanced on your front leg. One leg drill is where it's at

 

[drk_evns]

Yeah I wouldn't turn hips all the way back either. Listen to Sidewinder. Sorry stokely *shrug*

 

[timothy42b]

Totally agree with this, and to add, once you build muscle memory, it's really hard to unlearn. I've been filming myself in a field for months and I'm getting way better but it takes a lot of work to convince your body not to swing until you are completely balanced on your front leg. One leg drill is where it's at

I've been working on one leg and recently I finally started to really feel landing weight on that plant foot before pulling. But then i confused myself. I watched the new series by HUB and realized you not only land on it, but then you drive off it. As soon as I tried to do that I lost the feel of landing on the plant, and couldn't get it back, and my field work throws dropped by about 50 feet (which I think is proof the late pull really works and I was getting it!)

I'm not convinced the Stokely three step and delayed throw is right but it is very repeatable and i had a great round today, parred a couple of holes i don't usually reach. I think the Stokely sequence avoids X factor, where the shoulders turn back farther than the hips creating tension in the core. His forehand sequence really tries to keep the hips forward when the shoulders go back.

 

[nothinbuttree]

I think what Stokely attempts to do is build a solid, repeatable base throw. It is not meant as the end game for your throw, only the beginning, and is probably quite helpful at un-learning bad habits--I had MANY. He showed me some things one time and I was able to gain some distance in relatively short order, so perhaps I am biased a bit. My biggest issue was not rotating my hand around the disc enough. Just getting that little bit of extra rotation on the disc gets me 25' extra pretty consistently.

 

[sidewinder22]

I've been working on one leg and recently I finally started to really feel landing weight on that plant foot before pulling. But then i confused myself. I watched the new series by HUB and realized you not only land on it, but then you drive off it. As soon as I tried to do that I lost the feel of landing on the plant, and couldn't get it back, and my field work throws dropped by about 50 feet (which I think is proof the late pull really works and I was getting it!)

I'm not convinced the Stokely three step and delayed throw is right but it is very repeatable and i had a great round today, parred a couple of holes i don't usually reach. I think the Stokely sequence avoids X factor, where the shoulders turn back farther than the hips creating tension in the core. His forehand sequence really tries to keep the hips forward when the shoulders go back.

I think Scott teaches that way to get a full reachback, which most noobs never come close to. It's definitely not the way he throws. It's not really avoiding x-factor in the forward swing, but it's a different backswing sequence and you have to hold back longer so you lose some potential elasticity and acceleration.

 

[timothy42b]

I think what Stokely attempts to do is build a solid, repeatable base throw. It is not meant as the end game for your throw,

That's kind of what I was thinking.

Stokely didn't say the other elements of form weren't important, just that he thought if you did his reach back and waited to pull until you were on the plant foot most of the other stuff would take care of itself. I asked him about nose down and that was his reply, it would take care of itself. Actually it did, while he was watching anyway.

Reconciling that base throw with the details discussed here, especially about hip motion, seems - well I don't see how to do both.

 

[timothy42b]

I went looking for slo mo of Stokely. I haven't seen this one discussed here. This is a side by side comparison of one of his throws from 1999 with a modern throw from Paige, and they are similar, and neither is the same throw I'm doing. Can I get to an amateur version of that throw? Not sure. I don't have a lot of years left. <smiley> According to the narrator Scott's 1999 throw was c. 450 with a putter.