[Vs.] Which driver do you pair with Eagle/Teebird?

[jjmiller]

So it's widely renowned that Eagles and Teebirds take two different lines to do the same job- Teebirds for straight to fade and Eagles for more turn and more fade. Most people seem to prefer one or the other.

It seems that an Orion LF is the faster Eagle and a PD or Thunderbird makes for a faster Teebird.

Further, I find that a Wraith makes for an even faster Eagle while a Discmania DD flies more of a Teebird line.


So I'm wondering:

If you throw Eagles, would you pair them with an OLF and/or Wraith to maintain flight characteristics, or do you switch to the PD/DD to have the other type of flight? And vice versa for pairing with Teebirds.

Further, if you were to pick one flight pattern for your fairways and another for your control/distance drivers, would you rather have the straighter flight in your shorter discs and your S-type shot in your longer discs, or the other way around?

 

[slowplastic]

Further, if you were to pick one flight pattern for your fairways and another for your control/distance drivers, would you rather have the straighter flight in your shorter discs and your S-type shot in your longer discs, or the other way around?

I think the overall straight flight is ideal in many situations...but past the speed 9/10ish discs it's very hard to achieve consistently. Sure lots of us have a 12 speed laser, but often it's one disc that has been beat perfectly and matches our arm speed perfect.

Slower discs like Teebirds tend to fly straight/stable at a variety of speed...give a Teebird a 300' throw, it's straight, 350' it's straight, 400' pretty straight. Throw a typical Destroyer 350' and meathook, 400' pretty straight/neutral, 450' significant turn. Then consider same power but a 5-10MPH tail or headwind, flight path has huge differences like throwing those different powers.

I want my discs to fly similar at slightly different powers, so I want my drivers to have a touch of turn and decent fade so that if I miss my power by 10% they don't turn into meathooks or go way right, and also so they push forward if I miss my hyzer slightly. With fairways I feel I have a bit more control so I want it to just execute my line properly, plus I know a little different power input won't make it change its flight much.

A lot of discs in higher speed that go dead straight to fade I feel fly overstable, and they are fighting you the whole flight, costing distance. It's not like a Teebird where you snap it on the line and it glides/holds...a straight Destroyer is still wanting to come out while it's still at a pretty good speed. If I had 450-500' of power I'd possibly feel a bit differently, but then looking at how often pro's like McBeth and Koling throw a Thunderbird on 400-430' straight shots I think it's a pretty inherent thing with higher speed molds adding a ton of fade if they are a pretty true straight HSS.

TL;DR: I'd like a speed 12 Teebird please, but I don't think it exists. So instead a -1/2 stability is the next best thing for my meat and potatoes distance driver.

 

[jjmiller]

Do I assume from your post that you would also pair the PD/Thunderbird with a Teebird for the straight flight? Or are you one to just skip over the speed 9's and go to a Destroyer?

I started this thread because I like PD's and Rivals, but I recently picked up an Eagle and an OLF because I've never thrown one. I'm mostly wondering if anyone finds an advantage in having one speed class or the other fly a different line.

I extended the question to faster discs just for the hell of it. I had assumed people throw Wraiths and Destroyers because that bit of turn helps with overal distance, which is the point of throwing a high speed driver, and you've backed that up.

Does that mean that so many people throw the more popular Teebird and/or PD/Thunderbird because they find that straighter is better for anything apart from max distance? Seems like Rocs pretty much fly a Teebird line, too...

 

[Sydex]

I pair Teebirds and Thunderbirds. Teebirds are my workhorse driver for anything under 350'. Thunderbirds, on the other hand, are for anything ~350'+, or if there is wind, or if I need a little bit of skip. Anything beyond 400' and I need to throw over 400' I throw a Destroyer or a Beast depending on the situation.

 

[VictorB]

I pair eagles with outlaws (and patriots)

I don't use a speed 9/10 because I don't feel like it offers enough of an advantage in terms of distance (over and eagle) or accuracy (over an outlaw) to really carry one. Eagles are long enough, stable enough, and workable enough to cover most control drives out to 360' or so for me. I can work more lines with eagle/outlaw than PD/teebird. If I need a lot of overstability, FD3. This is just what I've learned over many years that I'm most comfortable with. Mixing different weights and plastics helps me cover more with less.

When I did carry a speed 9/10, I still carried a slower fairway - pairing PDs with FDs.

 

[Moose33]

Firebird with either.

 

[slowplastic]

Do I assume from your post that you would also pair the PD/Thunderbird with a Teebird for the straight flight? Or are you one to just skip over the speed 9's and go to a Destroyer?

I started this thread because I like PD's and Rivals, but I recently picked up an Eagle and an OLF because I've never thrown one. I'm mostly wondering if anyone finds an advantage in having one speed class or the other fly a different line.

...

Does that mean that so many people throw the more popular Teebird and/or PD/Thunderbird because they find that straighter is better for anything apart from max distance? Seems like Rocs pretty much fly a Teebird line, too...

I don't have the arm to need both the speed 7 and 9/10 class separately, I use them in conjunction. I will throw a mellow Teebird 320-375' range, while I pair it with a Thunderbird to handle the OS shots in the 310-350' range. If I paired it with an OS Teebird that would be 300-330' typically so it's not as good of a pairing. A bigger armed/Open player would likely be throwing the Thunderbird at and beyond their Teebird distances, so they could use both as different distance ranges, whereas I cannot and use them as stability differences with the added speed helping negate the distance loss.

I agree with the point about straight being better for anything but max D. Whenever I throw a fairway or mid that has that bit of turn/fade like -1/1 or -1/2 I absolutely love the flight and forgiveness...but then nearly never use them on the course. I can throw a Roc/Comet just as far and straighter, or a Teebird just as far and straighter, so the extra turn and fade just adds variables for me without a benefit. Certainly you need something with some turn/fade to help out with hyzer flips, mild turnovers, and anhyzers and I do use discs like that for those shots, but they are the "in addition" disc whereas the Teebird/Thunderbird or varieties of straight or straight to fade is the bread and butter, and only if I can't do something with that disc do I add variables in flight path. That's just me.

I find it time and time again, I'll test something like a Saint/Valk/Convict/etc. and absolutely love the flight, but then know that I would pretty much never use it on the course when I need accuracy and consistency. I can just throw a Thunderbird and get a more consistent result, but it's certainly not as fun for me to throw. Discs with more turn can overglide landings for me, and be more affected by wind. Like you said, I just don't need that turn and fade unless I'm trying to go for a max distance golf line, if I am throwing 350' and can do it on a dead straight line or hyzer why would I use a disc that turns?

That being said if it's a calm day and I'm not feeling my consistency I will sometimes throw a disc with the -1/2 flight so it "mushes" forward if I miss my angles slightly. I definitely enjoy throwing this flight path and see the benefit in helping smooth out angle variances....I just typically don't reach for it if I can throw a straight shot.

 

[GripEnemy]

I'm with VictorB. Skip the "control driver slot" and either use a fairway or distance driver. Either disc up and throw low or vice versa depending upon the ceiling and distance. They're redundant for me especially at the distances I throw. VERY rarely (maybe once or twice every 10 rounds?) I wish I had one of my worn 1.2 QOLFs with me but again it's rare and not worth it in the long run whatsoever.

 

[jjmiller]

I don't have the arm to need both the speed 7 and 9/10 class separately, I use them in conjunction. I will throw a mellow Teebird 320-375' range, while I pair it with a Thunderbird to handle the OS shots in the 310-350' range. If I paired it with an OS Teebird that would be 300-330' typically so it's not as good of a pairing. A bigger armed/Open player would likely be throwing the Thunderbird at and beyond their Teebird distances, so they could use both as different distance ranges, whereas I cannot and use them as stability differences with the added speed helping negate the loss.

I absolutely don't doubt you, and that makes perfect sense. But it doesn't mirror my experience. I cannot throw a Teebird/Rival 375'. 350' is all I've got. But I can throw a PD close to 400' if I get a good pull. I've NEVER thrown ANYTHING past 410' on a backhand(my most beat Destroyer that STILL didn't turn much) and if I don't catch it right, it will end up shorter than a good PD shot would have gone. So I reserve faster discs for forehands or headwinds. I wish I could throw a Teebird 375'...

 

[ThrowBot]

As far as I can tell, there's enough variation within distance driver molds that the "Teebird vs. Eagle" distinction can be covered without switching molds. Here's what I bag, or have recently had in the bag:

"Teebird" Flight (Straight-to-Fade)
Speed 7: Eagle. One of the CS JL X-molds from a few years back. Max Weight. Never flips, solid fade.
Speed 11: Bottom Stamp star Wraith (DD is too OS for me, more of a fade-to-fade)
Speed 12: Seasoned Embossed star Destro. Still doesn't flip, but has beat enough to go straight for a good while. Solid but somewhat dumpy fade.

"Eagle" Flight (Shot-shapey)
Speed 7: Seasoned "Twelve Time" champ Eagle L
Speed 11: Star Wraith, lower PLH and pop-top
SPeed 12: Seasoned pro Destroyer. Was straight-to-fade when brand new, but HSS has beat out while LSS remained.

Ok, now that's out of the way, a discussion on Speed 9 discs. I don't bag a real straight-to-fade Speed 9. I'm comfortable powering down a Destroyer for that type of shot. I do have a FT Firebird in the bag, but that's so OS it's not worth the effort to get it to go straight for very far. Eagle X is more workable for those throws. Tried the Thunderbird this spring but it never got worked into being very useful in my bag.

However, for anyone looking for a shot-shapey counterpart to their ThB/PD, I'd recommend the CD2. This mold is underrated/underutilized, in my opinion. It has slight but predictable turn right out of the box, with reliable fade. I'd say a true -1/+2.

As I write this, I'm realizing that I'm in agreement with some of the earlier posters who say that the "control driver" speed range can easily be covered by fairways and distance drivers. Really, my Speed 9 lineup is OS utility (FB), US utility (beat SW), and the CD2. I throw the CD2 more rarely than Eagles and Destroyers, but there is a range where I find use for it. Somewhere in the 300-330' range, where I don't feel like whoppin' an Eagle, and powering down a Destroyer won't quite get me the right line.

 

[slowplastic]

I absolutely don't doubt you, and that makes perfect sense. But it doesn't mirror my experience. I cannot throw a Teebird/Rival 375'. 350' is all I've got. But I can throw a PD close to 400' if I get a good pull. I've NEVER thrown ANYTHING past 410' on a backhand(my most beat Destroyer that STILL didn't turn much) and if I don't catch it right, it will end up shorter than a good PD shot would have gone. So I reserve faster discs for forehands or headwinds. I wish I could throw a Teebird 375'...

Yeah I think it's a disc by disc thing. Keep in mind I'm throwing a mellow Teebird, I'd say I throw it 350'+/- on average clean throw. Whereas the Thundy I throw 330'+/-. That's where those ranges come from, and I'm a ~400ish thrower with drivers. I thought the Thundy was supposed to be the longer Teebird but it's not at my arm speed, it's more of a faster OS Teebird. PD is the same thing...I can't throw it farther than a mild Teebird on a BH, just on lower lines or penetrating wind shots. On a FH I can throw PD/Thunderbird as far or farther than a Teebird because I trust its stability and speed more, but I can still hit 330-350' on a Teebird FH...although I don't use that shot on the course because I am likely to flip it a good percent of the time.

Point is that the "longer" Teebirds at my armspeed are more of a faster beefy Teebird instead. But I absolutely see how they can be longer if I threw farther. I have cracked 400' with a PD on flex shots a handful of times but that is not a shot I count on...it is just eye opening enough for me to see that disc's potential if I could throw it harder.

 

[slowplastic]

However, for anyone looking for a shot-shapey counterpart to their ThB/PD, I'd recommend the CD2. This mold is underrated/underutilized, in my opinion. It has slight but predictable turn right out of the box, with reliable fade. I'd say a true -1/+2.

Absolutely agree...if you want a hint/mild turn control driver that still has a ton of control, the CD2 is the perfect counterpart to the firmly straight Thunderbird.

 

[jjmiller]

Yeah I think it's a disc by disc thing. Keep in mind I'm throwing a mellow Teebird, I'd say I throw it 350'+/- on average clean throw. Whereas the Thundy I throw 330'+/-. That's where those ranges come from, and I'm a ~400ish thrower with drivers. I thought the Thundy was supposed to be the longer Teebird but it's not at my arm speed, it's more of a faster OS Teebird. PD is the same thing...I can't throw it farther than a mild Teebird on a BH, just on lower lines or penetrating wind shots. On a FH I can throw PD/Thunderbird as far or farther than a Teebird because I trust its stability and speed more, but I can still hit 330-350' on a Teebird FH...although I don't use that shot on the course because I am likely to flip it a good percent of the time.

Point is that the "longer" Teebirds at my armspeed are more of a faster beefy Teebird instead. But I absolutely see how they can be longer if I threw farther. I have cracked 400' with a PD on flex shots a handful of times but that is not a shot I count on...it is just eye opening enough for me to see that disc's potential if I could throw it harder.

Maybe the difference is that my PD's are a P-Line and an S-Line that I've been using for a couple years. They're nowhere near as OS as Teebirds I've thrown. Basically they fly just like a Rival but 20-40 feet further- which sometimes makes me question carrying a Rival...

I just picked up a Star Thunderbird on Monday. Hoping to go throw it this afternoon and see how it compares. My idea was that Stars are supposed to be the more stable variety and so maybe it will work for a forehand shot I could use. It's kinda breezy, but we'll see.

 

[slowplastic]

Maybe the difference is that my PD's are a P-Line and an S-Line that I've been using for a couple years. They're nowhere near as OS as Teebirds I've thrown. Basically they fly just like a Rival but 20-40 feet further- which sometimes makes me question carrying a Rival...

I just picked up a Star Thunderbird on Monday. Hoping to go throw it this afternoon and see how it compares. My idea was that Stars are supposed to be the more stable variety and so maybe it will work for a forehand shot I could use. It's kinda breezy, but we'll see.

Yeah I was throwing a firm patent #'s S-PD, which I think are sought after for being beef. I got it as a Teebird replacement, and I had to buy another Teebird after throwing it for a while, it was clearly way more power hungry. I should try a P-PD sometime since those are the bombers people rave about. The Teebirds I like fly like non-beefy Rivals for perspective.

I think the initial Star Thunderbirds were super beefy, I have thrown one of those and it was pretty OS without a lot of glide. I have tried a couple more recently though and they were like I expect a stable-overstable Thunderbird to be, firmly straight to a sweeping fade. So I think you'll be fine, especially after it wears in a little. I love when Thunderbirds get a -0.25ish turn to them, just so you feel you don't have to smash it full power, but not enough to push it off line.

Now that I remember...I had a guy with consistent 450' power throw my Thunderbird and Teebird. The Thunderbird went 380-400' with a -0.5/2 flight, and the Teebird went like 425' and -1/1. He birdied the 450' hole with it, first shot he ever threw with that disc. So even at really big power the Teebird still flew further, although the Thunderbird was much more neutral/trusty in flight at his velocity. The Teebird definitely flew higher and showed way more turn than I can ever get out of it, it flew like when I throw my FD hard.

 

[Stardoggy]

Teebird--->Orc--->Destroyer

 

[crd 81]

A

However, for anyone looking for a shot-shapey counterpart to their ThB/PD, I'd recommend the CD2. This mold is underrated/underutilized, in my opinion. It has slight but predictable turn right out of the box, with reliable fade. I'd say a true -1/+2.

As I write this, I'm realizing that I'm in agreement with some of the earlier posters who say that the "control driver" speed range can easily be covered by fairways and distance drivers. Really, my Speed 9 lineup is OS utility (FB), US utility (beat SW), and the CD2. I throw the CD2 more rarely than Eagles and Destroyers, but there is a range where I find use for it. Somewhere in the 300-330' range, where I don't feel like whoppin' an Eagle, and powering down a Destroyer won't quite get me the right line.

Good post.

Long time EX thrower here and I think a good contender for the -0.5 to 1/+2 that is a little longer than the EX and can penetrate lower lines is the Rival. It powers down well and can handle some power. Good disc that isn't quite in the speed 9 control category of discs.

Like others I don't use a true control driver but power down on my distance driver.

 

[ODRB]

I didn't need speed 6-7s and speed 9s, so I dropped the Gazelles.
Roc > OLF > Destroyer.

I think each carve similar lines. Although fresh OLFs don't quite have the HSS of the other two, so I throw a few Firebirds as well.

 

[JeCroisQue]

I've tried almost every distance driver on the market. Nothing I have found duplicates the flight and wear pattern of a Teebird. The PD and Thunderbird are close, but honestly do not travel further than a Teebird for me. Teebirds are sneaky long.

There is no DD I have found to pair with it. The closest I have found is a Viking Discs Thor in the Storm plastic. The Armor plastic definitely has turn to it. Also a fresh max weight opto saint is a great replacement for a beat in teebird. From my experience.

 

[VictorB]

Maybe the difference is that my PD's are a P-Line and an S-Line that I've been using for a couple years. They're nowhere near as OS as Teebirds I've thrown. Basically they fly just like a Rival but 20-40 feet further- which sometimes makes me question carrying a Rival...

I just picked up a Star Thunderbird on Monday. Hoping to go throw it this afternoon and see how it compares. My idea was that Stars are supposed to be the more stable variety and so maybe it will work for a forehand shot I could use. It's kinda breezy, but we'll see.

Skip the star thunderbird and just get a new cPD or a fresh max weight sPD. There's not much difference in flight or feel imo, just stick with the mold you're already comfortable with.

I didn't need speed 6-7s and speed 9s, so I dropped the Gazelles.
Roc > OLF > Destroyer.

I think each carve similar lines. Although fresh OLFs don't quite have the HSS of the other two, so I throw a few Firebirds as well.

I think this definitely works also. When I carried convicts earlier this year I only used speed 9s (why I'm not now is a different discussion) It's just a matter of how comfortable you are powering down on them. I find powering up more on an eagle to be easier than powering down a PD/thunderbird/convict.

 

[ODRB]

I think this definitely works also. When I carried convicts earlier this year I only used speed 9s (why I'm not now is a different discussion) It's just a matter of how comfortable you are powering down on them. I find powering up more on an eagle to be easier than powering down a PD/thunderbird/convict.

I find throwing Rocs cleaner/harder covers more of this gap than powering down the Orions.