Will you be over 40 in 2015?

[shive]

Consider these six statements:

1) You will be 40 or older in 2015.
2) You would much rather play disc golf competitively than watch somebody else play it.
3) You enjoy a challenge, and don't want to be babied.
4) You wish that your division was as well treated as any other Pro division
5) You would occasionally travel regionally, perhaps nationally, or possibly even internationally to play in an event that offered good value to your division.
6) You wish that there were some way to identify such events well in advance.

If most of these statements describe you, then you should consider joining the Divisional Tour Newsgroup. The purpose of this newsgroup is "to identify, promote and support exciting disc golf tournaments that offer good value to older players." To join, just send me ([email protected]) an email, and I will put you on our mailing list. You will then receive periodic updates and other communications of general interest to older players.

The initial updates will compare the premise of our newsgroup with that of the PDGA, give some simple guidelines to help you identify "senior-friendly" events, and comment briefly on the friendliness (or lack thereof) of some selected 2015 events. Later ones will share newsgroup input on locating low-cost housing alternatives to the Pittsburgh Worlds, and circulate other information of general interest to older players.

There is no fee to join. I do not share contact information with any third party, and I will remove your name from the mailing list immediately upon request.

 

[ru4por]

Hey Pete. Are you focusing on the needs and promotion of the PRO masters and above? Or is it your intend to include amateur age protected play in this initiative?

 

[Okdiscgolfer]

Email sent

 

[teemkey]

I'm way over 40, and would be interested in any group that can effectively promote & support the inclusion of the elder divisions in more tournaments. I'm also an amateur, and noticed that Pittsburgh was called out, but not Kalamazoo; hence will await the answer to ru4por's question before getting involved with this group.

 

[scarpfish]

Personally, I think we need more Masters and up only events. Particularly for the age 60+ players who don't get a lot of competition. I think they'd be very successful.

 

[Jay Dub]

Personally, I think we need more Masters and up only events. Particularly for the age 60+ players who don't get a lot of competition. I think they'd be very successful.

:thmbup:

There's a new one in this area in 2015. Early Oct at Englewood, a favorite of mine.

 

[gdub58]

I'm way over 40, and would be interested in any group that can effectively promote & support the inclusion of the elder divisions in more tournaments. I'm also an amateur, and noticed that Pittsburgh was called out, but not Kalamazoo; hence will await the answer to ru4por's question before getting involved with this group.

Just curious - would you "turn pro" if this effort was focused on that segment? Are you an amateur for a specific reason other than the level of competition vs. the pro age-protected divisions?

Not trying to derail this or be confrontational in any way - I just have to wonder if as an older group we might get more traction if we focused on our standing in the pro community and abandoned the age-protected am divisions. I mean, while we cannot compete with the younger pros and as such it makes sense to have our own divisions, when it comes to am divisions couldn't we compete in advanced/intermediate/recreational divisions based on our ratings?

As to the original question, I am interested and will send an email.

 

[Jay Dub]

Email sent.

 

[ru4por]

Just curious - would you "turn pro" if this effort was focused on that segment? Are you an amateur for a specific reason other than the level of competition vs. the pro age-protected divisions?

Not trying to derail this or be confrontational in any way - I just have to wonder if as an older group we might get more traction if we focused on our standing in the pro community and abandoned the age-protected am divisions. I mean, while we cannot compete with the younger pros and as such it makes sense to have our own divisions, when it comes to am divisions couldn't we compete in advanced/intermediate/recreational divisions based on our ratings?

As to the original question, I am interested and will send an email.

I'll respond gdub. I have no interest in moving to a money competition. I am very happy with player packs or trophy only. I am not, nor will I spend the time to become a tournament winning player, they not interested in giving away my money. I have just started playing in tournaments this last year and could not have been more pleased with the age protected am divisions. In my opinion, playing for cash (in disc golf or many of the other games/sports I have been involved in) brings out a different attitude and mentality. It probably should, and it does not need to be a bad thing. Often it is though.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I think an event with a format restricted to players at least Master age and broken into rating brackets would work. Pros and ams play together in their rating range division with pros earning cash prizes and Ams earning merch in their division. I know there are Master Ams who have lobbied for an Intermediate Master Am division but that's unlikely to happen. However, this age restricted, ratings based format solves that problem where you don't have to play with younger players in the regular lower rated am divisions like Rec or Novice that match your rating.

 

[shive]

Amateur or Pro?

I would say that the Divisional Tour Newsgroup is of far more immediate interest to older pros than older amateurs. I concentrate on concerns of pros, probably because I am a pro myself and understand those concerns better. Still, our newsgroup has about 25% amateur membership. Perhaps these members are considering turning pro and wonder what life might be like if they did. Some have told me that they would like to start a newgroup like this one exclusively for amateurs, so they are interested in how this one works.

I wish someone would do that. Pro and amateur objectives are sufficiently different that they would be best served by two separate groups. And my candid opinion is that the older amateurs (and young ones too, for that matter) are more in need of such an organization than the older pros.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Peter, I know you hang on to the perception that there are really "pros" and pro divisions older than Open when the reality is that Open only has a small number of true pros. I think your group could be stronger focusing on senior issues for playing disc golf events and simply recognizing that over age 39 the better amateur players in each age range are allowed/choose to play for cash.

 

[ru4por]

I would say that the Divisional Tour Newsgroup is of far more immediate interest to older pros than older amateurs. I concentrate on concerns of pros, probably because I am a pro myself and understand those concerns better. Still, our newsgroup has about 25% amateur membership. Perhaps these members are considering turning pro and wonder what life might be like if they did. Some have told me that they would like to start a newgroup like this one exclusively for amateurs, so they are interested in how this one works.

I wish someone would do that. Pro and amateur objectives are sufficiently different that they would be best served by two separate groups. And my candid opinion is that the older amateurs (and young ones too, for that matter) are more in need of such an organization than the older pros.

In my area, there is a masters club, loosely organized and focused on the pursuit of making better availability of age protected divisioning and attendance at tournaments. (Michigan Masters & More on Disc Golf Scene). The club is based on amateur participation, mostly because most of the masters+ scene here, plays ams. Michigan State Championships with 484 players had 17 total masters and grands (no senior grands) in pro and 67 masters, grands and seniors in ams. I don't know if that is indicative of the country, but pretty common here. I don't think there would be any objection to playing with pros based on ratings. But ams play in tournament for a wide variety of reasons, but it seems to me that pros play in tournaments for primarily one reason....money.
If Pete is looking to organize touring master+ pros, I think that is great, but I would agree that is a pretty selective disc golf population. Maybe a little more regional organization or club is what I am looking for.

 

[shive]

to ru4por:

That sounds like a great organization. Perhaps the amateur forums have less need for a national presence, since amateurs travel less on the average. Still, it might be nice if you knew what similar groups were doing.

I'm not sure how to measure the "selectivity" of our focus. The Divisional Tour Newsgroup has well over 400 members, including some from foreign countries. I've actually worried about it getting too big, and have thought about capping it at 500.

 

[teemkey]

Just curious - would you "turn pro" if this effort was focused on that segment? Are you an amateur for a specific reason other than the level of competition vs. the pro age-protected divisions?

Not trying to derail this or be confrontational in any way - I just have to wonder if as an older group we might get more traction if we focused on our standing in the pro community and abandoned the age-protected am divisions. I mean, while we cannot compete with the younger pros and as such it makes sense to have our own divisions, when it comes to am divisions couldn't we compete in advanced/intermediate/recreational divisions based on our ratings?

As to the original question, I am interested and will send an email.

I'm aligned with ru4por's thinking on this. I'm not adamant about staying in Am, but that's my preference if I have the option.

I usually play in MA2 since MS1 is hardly ever offered in my area (Portland, OR). Nor is MG1 for that matter. Most TDs in my area quickly & easily fill their tournaments with MPO, MA1, & MA2 (and MM1 most of the time). They usually offer FPO & FA1 mainly because they like girls ... but the female divisions are the last to fill -- and at least one TD has stated he doesn't offer MPM & MPG because they are slow to fill btw.

I think TDs will have to be offered an incentive to offer junior, low-skill (*A3, *A4), & senior divisions because, frankly, they don't need them to fill an event. Further, larger divisions offer a better payout. There's currently no *practical* reason for a TD to expand their divisional preferences.

 

[JC17393]

I'm aligned with ru4por's thinking on this. I'm not adamant about staying in Am, but that's my preference if I have the option.

I usually play in MA2 since MS1 is hardly ever offered in my area (Portland, OR). Nor is MG1 for that matter. Most TDs in my area quickly & easily fill their tournaments with MPO, MA1, & MA2 (and MM1 most of the time). They usually offer FPO & FA1 mainly because they like girls ... but the female divisions are the last to fill -- and at least one TD has stated he doesn't offer MPM & MPG because they are slow to fill btw.

I think TDs will have to be offered an incentive to offer junior, low-skill (*A3, *A4), & senior divisions because, frankly, they don't need them to fill an event. Further, larger divisions offer a better payout. There's currently no *practical* reason for a TD to expand their divisional preferences.

If there's demand for those divisions (and I'd bet anything there is), why push existing events to add them? Why invent incentives for existing TDs to reluctantly do something?

Simply create new events that include them while excluding the commonly offered divisions (MPO, MA1, etc).

 

[Nemmers]

Maybe I've not utilized it properly, but I've been on this mailing list for over a year and I've yet to see what benefit it provides. No offense....I'm over 40 and I think the idea is awesome....I just don't get what this Divisional Tour is supposedly doing.

I am, however, a rank amateur....so there's that....

 

[ru4por]

If there's demand for those divisions (and I'd bet anything there is), why push existing events to add them? Why invent incentives for existing TDs to reluctantly do something?

Simply create new events that include them while excluding the commonly offered divisions (MPO, MA1, etc).

This is solid thinking. The focus of a few of us in this area is to make some decisions as a group of masters and grands to choose tournaments. Ensure we can field a reasonable number of players for a division and essentially petition the TD to provide the division. That way area age protected players can set up a type of regional tour and get to play the divisions we wish to play. I am not sure how it will work out, the idea is new and the involvement is just getting started.

Thanks for your comments, Pete. And everyone really. I think this is important discussion to be had. The idea of "growing the sport" is often seem as bringing in new, younger players. But, us old farts constitute a pretty large population of the current players.

 

[teemkey]

If there's demand for those divisions (and I'd bet anything there is), why push existing events to add them? Why invent incentives for existing TDs to reluctantly do something?

Simply create new events that include them while excluding the commonly offered divisions (MPO, MA1, etc).

That's what I've been thinking. I'm planning on giving it a try next summer.

However, the issue is how to run an event. From what I've read on this forum, it takes a lot of time and effort to line up sponsors, promote, and keep the event organized & flowing (not to mention the payouts). Since I want the event to be successful, I'd like to prepare ... any suggestions?

Perhaps this should be a separate topic ...

 

[Steve West]

Shameless plug for disc golf offered as a demonstration sport at the National Senior Games July 11&12 in Minnesota.