Wrist Activation

[deyo7]

Story: So at course yesterday a couple guys were warming up throwing about 20 ft apart or so throwing back and forth... they really seemed focused on keeping their wrist in what appeared to be a curled or cocked position as they were throwing to each other. I didn't think too much of it because you see people do weird stuff all the time. But then one of the guys took some warmup throws on hole one and man the disc was ejecting with pretty incredible launch speed. They were nice enough guys and I would have asked him what the hell he was focusing on with his wrist but my buddy arrived and we got chatting and next thing you know, they were off and playin... opportunity blown, I guess.

So, to speculate and also to find out what's proper, you think he was trying to focus on not allowing wrist to be too loose and/or keeping hand on outside of disc at hit?
What's the proper technique with the wrist? Do you want to resist allowing wrist to slop forward too soon thereby creating a better final lever with your wrist? Is that the idea?
I also assume you want to somewhat resist the curl on the inward pull too, no? I.e., Do you keep a fairly firm wrist through the entirety of the throw? Or at least until the ejection point...?

Cheers

 

[F. Howl]

Paul and Sexton have something to say about it here:
https://youtu.be/U0gzNIRxRbY?t=3m17s

But plenty of players do it. Seppo is one of the bigger arms on tour and he curls:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FBrEP4gs9s

 

[Inverted]

Paul and Sexton have something to say about it here:
https://youtu.be/U0gzNIRxRbY?t=3m17s

But plenty of players do it. Seppo is one of the bigger arms on tour and he curls:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FBrEP4gs9s

I would beg to differ a bit on Seppo. He really is just bending his elbow in more, not just the wrist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F5VROQkROI at the 1:23 mark of the start of his reachback shows this. At the 1:24 mark the max reachback, his wrist is straight. Then when he brings the disc back in to his pec at 1:25 you can see that massive elbow angle. He has a long upper arm which makes a huge lever.

I think the massive power he develops does make the wrist bend a bit, but like Sexton said, it's not a conscious thing that players should be doing. The dynamics of the proper throw will generate all the snap you need.

 

[F. Howl]

^^^ yeah, I guess he does straighten it at the apex of his reachback. He keeps it really cocked right up to that point though...

 

[Inverted]

So, to speculate and also to find out what's proper, you think he was trying to focus on not allowing wrist to be too loose and/or keeping hand on outside of disc at hit?
What's the proper technique with the wrist? Do you want to resist allowing wrist to slop forward too soon thereby creating a better final lever with your wrist? Is that the idea?
I also assume you want to somewhat resist the curl on the inward pull too, no? I.e., Do you keep a fairly firm wrist through the entirety of the throw? Or at least until the ejection point?

Tossing a disc during warmup may involve a lot of wrist action, think of a spin putt, since you aren't planning on throwing it too far or hard at your friend. But for long full tee shots you shouldnt be thinking about your wrist as things will be moving way faster than you can consciously process.

Also, if you haven't check out the sticky thread on disc gold videos. I'm thinking Brad Walkers More Snap #1 and #2 videos might help you visualize the wrist movement. Been awhile since I watched those.

 

[deyo7]

Tossing a disc during warmup may involve a lot of wrist action, think of a spin putt, since you aren't planning on throwing it too far or hard at your friend. But for long full tee shots you shouldnt be thinking about your wrist as things will be moving way faster than you can consciously process.

Also, if you haven't check out the sticky thread on disc gold videos. I'm thinking Brad Walkers More Snap #1 and #2 videos might help you visualize the wrist movement. Been awhile since I watched those.

Yeah but... this guy seemed very conscientious of his wrist position, like that was what he was working on... As he lined up at the tee he seemed to be making a conscious effort of keeping his wrist locked (it may not have been curled per se, just appeared slightly bent in/wrapped around disc.) Maybe he was focused on keeping wrist locked or maybe he was trying to ensure that he kept his hand on outside of disc (like in closed shoulder snap drill). But forgetting those guys...

**what is proper technique of the wrist?** (I respectfully disagree that one can't or shouldn't think of what wrist is doing. For example, I can let it slop all over the place if I let it). I'm not saying that it's the quintessential piece of the throw but has to have some significance.

So, what's the proper technique with the wrist? [As arm is extending forward] do you want to resist allowing wrist to slop forward too soon thereby creating a better final lever with your wrist? Is that the idea? I also assume you want to somewhat resist the curl in on the inward pull too, no? I.e., Do you keep a fairly firm wrist through the entirety of the throw? Or at least until the ejection point...? What do you guys do?

 

[Inverted]

I'm definitely not a teacher or swing guru, hopefully some of our resident experts here can chime in. But my two cents is that the important thing is the pinch between the thumb and forefinger on the disc. This will add some natural wrist stability. In a perfect world, you would want the loosest wrist possible AND the strongest pinch you could have. If you throw correctly, the force will be so strong that the disc will rip out of your hand no matter what you do with your wrist or how hard you pinch. See Heavy Disc's water bottle drill...

Your body rotation whips the arm, which is composed of levers at primarily the elbow, but also a little bit of the shoulder and wrist. So loose muscles are faster than tense muscles, but you need enough tension to keep a grip and everything in the right place. It's hard to describe, I'm sorry. But if you watch the pros on video, you will eventually see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkPwHUVInes&t=17s Watch this video at 0:15 to 0:18 mark. Pause the video and use the period and comma keys to forward or back frame by frame. You can really see Paul's wrist and arm muscles working. Working to hang on to the disc as his elbow swings open and releases the disc down the line. The disc just rips out! He's not cocking or uncocking his wrist...it's pretty much all in line with his forearm the whole time. The elbow is the major hinge. You will get a little tendon bounce in your wrist which adds to the throw, but it's not a conscious hinging or unhinging of the wrist. Watch his follow thru! The wrist stays in line!

 

[Mike C]

I curl my wrist on every backhand throw, and putt. Adds spin IME.

 

[sidewinder22]

I curl my wrist on every backhand throw, and putt. Adds spin IME.

MVP discs are harder to spin.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

MVP discs are harder to spin.

No they just spin longer and better gotta activate that ****.

(with good technique)

 

[deyo7]

I'm definitely not a teacher or swing guru, hopefully some of our resident experts here can chime in. But my two cents is that the important thing is the pinch between the thumb and forefinger on the disc. This will add some natural wrist stability. In a perfect world, you would want the loosest wrist possible AND the strongest pinch you could have. If you throw correctly, the force will be so strong that the disc will rip out of your hand no matter what you do with your wrist or how hard you pinch. See Heavy Disc's water bottle drill...

Your body rotation whips the arm, which is composed of levers at primarily the elbow, but also a little bit of the shoulder and wrist. So loose muscles are faster than tense muscles, but you need enough tension to keep a grip and everything in the right place. It's hard to describe, I'm sorry. But if you watch the pros on video, you will eventually see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkPwHUVInes&t=17s Watch this video at 0:15 to 0:18 mark. Pause the video and use the period and comma keys to forward or back frame by frame. You can really see Paul's wrist and arm muscles working. Working to hang on to the disc as his elbow swings open and releases the disc down the line. The disc just rips out! He's not cocking or uncocking his wrist...it's pretty much all in line with his forearm the whole time. The elbow is the major hinge. You will get a little tendon bounce in your wrist which adds to the throw, but it's not a conscious hinging or unhinging of the wrist. Watch his follow thru! The wrist stays in line!

Nice pro tip on the . and , keys on youtube.

Yeah, I understand that the wrist is not the major lever and all the above. But as I watch the video in entirety it appears that Paul's wrist is completely locked. As you say, you can tell his wrist and arm muscles are working. Maybe that's all grip but I wonder if he is not resisting wrist movement as well.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

MVP discs are harder to spin.

Simple spin from the fingers...

 

[sidewinder22]

So, to speculate and also to find out what's proper, you think he was trying to focus on not allowing wrist to be too loose and/or keeping hand on outside of disc at hit?

Probably a position of leverage for his aim.

What's the proper technique with the wrist? Do you want to resist allowing wrist to slop forward too soon thereby creating a better final lever with your wrist? Is that the idea?
I also assume you want to somewhat resist the curl on the inward pull too, no? I.e., Do you keep a fairly firm wrist through the entirety of the throw? Or at least until the ejection point...?

Cheers

Pretty much. Firmness varies with the tension to maintain leveraged angle on the disc.

Spring theory. You can load tension against the disc on the inward swing and then spring it out. Tighter spring can load and unload more force, and you can tighten the spring as you go.

String theory. Ball on string, keep string pulled taut, tension increases with centripetal force. You can change the arc and rhythm of the wrist to toss the ball in the direction you wish.

Golden Spiral Arc theory. You can create angles on the disc and change the direction of the disc to increase late acceleration and delay/ease the grip tension in a widening spiral arc. Instead of curling inward too far, the golden spiral reverses direction to ease or delay the tension and centripetal force toward the very end.

 

[deyo7]

Simple spin from the fingers...

Aim's fidget spinner

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Aim's fidget spinner

Lol 4 real. I've been doing this **** for a while tho and actually compared other domey discs like rocs vs vectors and well as much as i like to joke about the GYRO... Ive always said it is real even if my legacy was landfilled.

 

[Mike C]

MVP discs are harder to spin.

Can't say I've ever noticed that, but I wrist curl every brand FWIW. Novas to Quasars and everything in between.

 

[deyo7]

Can't say I've ever noticed that, but I wrist curl every brand FWIW. Novas to Quasars and everything in between.

Mike, that's because you are a super hero. Captain America never noticed when throwing his shield either. It's kind of funny that guys in my story above were throwing MVP. I guess they were employing the 'Activate the Gyro' theory.

All seriousness, good to know that you curl wrist on everything. Generally speaking, do you keep the wrist curled for as long as humanly possible or when do you let it release? If that's possible to answer.

Probably a position of leverage for his aim.

Pretty much. Firmness varies with the tension to maintain leveraged angle on the disc.

Spring theory. You can load tension against the disc on the inward swing and then spring it out. Tighter spring can load and unload more force, and you can tighten the spring as you go.

String theory. Ball on string, keep string pulled taut, tension increases with centripetal force. You can change the arc and rhythm of the wrist to toss the ball in the direction you wish.

Golden Spiral Arc theory. You can create angles on the disc and change the direction of the disc to increase late acceleration and delay/ease the grip tension in a widening spiral arc. Instead of curling inward too far, the golden spiral reverses direction to ease or delay the tension and centripetal force toward the very end.

Thank you, SW. I really appreciate all your help.

SW, same question: is it silly to ask about timing? For example, If I'm trying out the spring theory is there a certain point that I ought to let the tension release or just hold the lock position until I can't? Basically hold until hitting nail/board out left? This should probably just be pretty intuitive, no?

 

[Inverted]

Nice pro tip on the . and , keys on youtube.

Yeah, I understand that the wrist is not the major lever and all the above. But as I watch the video in entirety it appears that Paul's wrist is completely locked. As you say, you can tell his wrist and arm muscles are working. Maybe that's all grip but I wonder if he is not resisting wrist movement as well.

Okay. Imagine you are waving goodbye to someone by holding your hand up, palm out towards that person, and moving it up and down - not side to side. You'll see its easy to keep a very limp and loose wrist.

Now try the exact same thing, but pinch your forefinger and thumb together as hard as you can. It's way more harder to move your wrist in the same fashion.

That was the point I was trying to make. In Paul's case, it does look like he curls the wrist just a bit, some players do and some dont. Find that natural wrist position for YOU, that allows you to control the disc and pinch, while still being fast and fluid.

 

[AzteC]

Interestingly, if you look at slow-mo shots of Simon, Eagle, or Drew Gibson, when they are pulling through, the disc like torques and is almost inverted for a second. I suspect it has something to do with their wrists.

 

[summit617]

Personally I intentionally hold my wrist as closed as possible while remaining relaxed. I find this point is slightly further than the 180 degrees between the back of the hand and the forearm in a straight neutral position. I think this makes it easier to keep the hand on the outside of the disc and generate more force in the angular direction (aka spin). Also because mass is pushed outward on mvp discs, they need more torque to achieve the same rate of spin as a disc with its mass more towards the middle, but the spin will also last longer in flight. Ultimately the angular momentum of an MVP disc is identical to any other disc, its spin will just be more consistent throughout the entirety of its flight.