Your thoughts on Hybrid Courses???

[BogeyNoMore]

IMO, the best way to have them coexist on the same property is to really minimize overlap.

The only two I've played (Yankee Springs and Sunnybrook), you had to make a conscious effort to avoid the other players. The less of that, the better for all. Also, because of the wide open nature of the property and length of holes likely to be designed into such a course, knowing where the basket is in relationship to the tee and navigating from basket to next tee are much more of an issue when playing DG on a bolf course.... much more so than your typical wooded DG course.

If you're going to charge people for playing DG, you better have decent maps and signage.

 

[VictorB]

Should've been more specific. A disc golf course that runs through or congruent with an existing ball golf course.

I think we'll see this more and more as the ball golf boom dies off and courses are looking for new ways to get people out and play. I think they are a great change of pace - at least around here - because it offers a different kind of challenge. I'd like to be able to play the course at the Columbia Country Club more often, but they only let us do it once a year

 

[mike]

Like Dylan...i've played Villas Crossing and have hosted events there. The course comingles quite well with the ball golfers.

Today...I played Butter Valley Golf Port...as they had their grand opening today. The course is minimally invasive on the ball golf portion however it does require the carts due to mitigating some long hikes between holes. It wouldnt be impossible to hike....but there are 2-3 stretches between 'sections' that the cart makes significant time savings.

Like others noted, the design is the make/break of hybrid dg courses.

 

[DavidSauls]

On the golf cart subtopic of hybrid courses.

If the flow depends on the use of carts to make the flow function on a course that would not otherwise be very walkable; the flow is bad.

If there are not multiple holes with terrain golf carts can't traverse I will find the course boring and whimp oriented.

I disagree. I'm not a fan of hybrid courses, for all the reasons others have described, but I think making them cart-essential offers the opportunity to make them as good as possible.

Without the constraint of putting a tee within an easy walk of the previous basket, the designer could use the best possible holes. It wouldn't matter that it's 1000 feet from one hole to another, since everyone would be carting it. A course doesn't have to have uncartable holes to be interesting; but it is has such terrain, it also might have a spot where you park to play a 2 or 3 hole loop on a steep slope, then return to the cart for the next holes.

There are both attractions and drawbacks to a hybrid course, but it's instructive to me that there have been many of them built, none of which have won acclaim as must-play courses. Good, but not great, seems to be their ceiling.

 

[JC17393]

Without the constraint of putting a tee within an easy walk of the previous basket, the designer could use the best possible holes. It wouldn't matter that it's 1000 feet from one hole to another, since everyone would be carting it. A course doesn't have to have uncartable holes to be interesting; but it is has such terrain, it also might have a spot where you park to play a 2 or 3 hole loop on a steep slope, then return to the cart for the next holes.

I played a course where carts were an option and there were a couple loops of the course like you describe: uncartable. But there were no long walks where the cart would be greatly advantageous so it rendered the cart more of a hassle than a help (unless you wanted a beverage cooler with you or something). Drive it 300 feet, park it, play 3 holes, come back to the cart, drive it 400 feet, park it, play two more holes, and so on.

There are both attractions and drawbacks to a hybrid course, but it's instructive to me that there have been many of them built, none of which have won acclaim as must-play courses. Good, but not great, seems to be their ceiling.

I agree with this. I think the only way to get a great course at a ball golf course is the same way you get a great course anywhere else...give the course its own space where it can be whatever it needs to be. I think disc and ball can co-exist on the same property but the less they are actually "hybrid", the better both can be both in terms of design and quality of play.

 

[DavidSauls]

I've played two, one of which was on great property and, in my opinion, missed a great opportunity with bad design. Unless you like 1300' wide open holes.

Ever since, like a lot of people, I've pondered what might have been, if it had been designed with a different philosophy.

 

[NathanNoodleArm]

I really like Villas Crossing. I think it was very well done with much of the course going up the hill into the woods away from the ball golf course. I live close to a public golf course that borders a huge park and often wonder what kind of disc golf course could be installed there.

 

[Reniger]

Like Mr. Sauls said, carts on a hybrid course are not because it's difficult to walk, it's because the holes are spread out much further apart. Sure, Yankee Springs has lots of very long holes, but you're also along side a traditional golf course. If a thrown gets grip-locked and carried by wind, it's also much better to drive a cart to get it quickly. It's more for flow and hole spacing than the fact that it can't be easily walked.

 

[DavidSauls]

Sort of. It depends on how the course is designed---what philosophy and compromises are made.

For example, a disc golf course could be designed putting 2 disc golf holes for every (ball) golf hole, using the area between golf green and next tee, or even using fringe area not used by the golfers. A cart wouldn't be required. It might be useful, if all areas are cartable.

Another course might be designed by finding the 18 greatest disc golf holes on the property, more or less in the flow of the golf course, but with some transitions of 1000' feet or more. You wouldn't want to walk that course. But with a cart, the transitions would hardly matter---and that fact would free the designer to find those 18 greatest holes, without the constraint of keeping them walkable.

 

[rhatton1]

Discs can make divots on the green, but in my experience, they make a lot less of them than balls. And it's not a big deal to pick up a divot tool and fix them.

This.

Working a lot with golf courses over here - no greenkeeper has had an issue with disc divots. Only issue they foresee is people playing shots off the green - that can do lasting damage (pivoting feet)

Digging out a tombstone divot is no real difference to digging out a plonked ball divot - normally much thinner and easier.

 

[mrclc]

I've played two courses on active ball golf courses (Bird Bay & Fiesta Lakes), and in my opinion the biggest issues with both are navigation/markers and mutual respect between ball and disc golfers.

Neither Fiesta Lakes or Bird Bay was terribly well-marked, and the pro shop maps were substandard. I don't know whether it's an aesthetic thing or there's some other reason, but tee signs or clear markers for disc golfers would make a world of difference. At both courses I was told by the course employee to just tee off from the ball golf tees, and both times I found that this was not the correct location. If permanent tee signs or markers aren't feasible, a detailed map with accurate information is a must.

My second biggest issue is educating and cultivating a mutual respect between ball golfers and disc golfers. We're both here to have fun, but our standards of etiquette can be a bit different. Disc golfers should be quieter and more respectful of others within earshot. Ball golfers should recognize that we paid to play on this property just like they did, and that we tend to play a bit quicker than they do in the event that we cross paths. I've seen bad behavior from both disc and ball golfers alike that could've been prevented with a little education and courtesy. Just my two cents...

 

[John M. Fretz]

Verdugo Hills is great! I especially like that it has huge banks of lights that stay lit until 9:30 or 10pm, making it possible to play well into darkness. I've also never seen altercations between bg-ers and dg-ers. The biggest problems I've ever noticed were between disc golfers with no etiquette arguing with each other. Ball golfers seem to inherently understand etiquette better. Some discers, not so much. Also, the bar n grill "Tee's on the Green" (at the 9th hole) is awesome.

 

[biscoe]

I disagree. I'm not a fan of hybrid courses, for all the reasons others have described, but I think making them cart-essential offers the opportunity to make them as good as possible.

Making them cart-required also increases the benefit to the landowner which is the most important single part of the equation. I am getting ready to design my first one. looking forward to it quite a bit.

 

[Improbably]

Making them cart-required also increases the benefit to the landowner which is the most important single part of the equation. I am getting ready to design my first one. looking forward to it quite a bit.

I find this design intention reprehensible.

 

[DavidSauls]

I find this design intention reprehensible.

Why in the world?

Better to have a course that the property owner deems worth keeping---because of the revenue from cart rentals---than one losing one, or never having it, because it's not.

It's a niche market, anyway.

 

[biscoe]

I find this design intention reprehensible.

That almost moves me to tears.

 

[Dana]

I find this design intention reprehensible.

I'm assuming the reason the golf course is adding disc golf is to bring in more people/revenue. Cart rentals will substantially increase revenue, assuming disc golfers don't wreck too many of em.