Backhand technique help

[Tepi]

Trying to put things together to understand more. Is this head tilt what leads to tilted spiral and makes SW say he would fall either on his left side or ass if the plant leg slipped, while most people would fall on their face? Seppo Paju seems to have this perfected, to my understanding the power behind his hyzers are coming heavily from this? (27:04 to video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Hi50vjKMc

What happens to this tilt when you try to keep the disc low or throw downwards to downhill?

Thanks!

 

[sidewinder22]

Trying to put things together to understand more. Is this head tilt what leads to tilted spiral and makes SW say he would fall either on his left side or ass if the plant leg slipped, while most people would fall on their face? Seppo Paju seems to have this perfected, to my understanding the power behind his hyzers are coming heavily from this? (27:04 to video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Hi50vjKMc

What happens to this tilt when you try to keep the disc low or throw downwards to downhill?

Thanks!

Yep.

high = rear shoulder plant.

Low = butt plant.

Downhill = face or front shoulder plant.

 

[Tepi]

This felt really head up shin forward of nose but feels aint real
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQF1A44D4XY

Think I've done everything head down so far, requires quite some work to fix

 

[sidewinder22]

In Kick the Can note how my spine/head tilt targetward in the backswing and reverse tilt in the stride. Your head/spine is tilted away from target in your backswing.

 

[slowplastic]

Yeah so I was turning back like this for a while.

Best I can describe it likely feels to you now is you are turning "from behind" so your butt is facing the target, but you're feeling like you're really loading into that rear hip internally, building a lot of tension. Then you're pushing laterally forward, trying to turn back more, but really those things kind of cancel out so you appear to be the same turned back angle while moving to the target closed.

In that kick the can leg swing you'll note how in the backswing, when your spine tilts targetward in an excessive way to feel it, you feel like you "want" to fall forward targetward. This is the difference in feel between being "on" the hip, where it feels like you can keep turning back as you move targetward, vs. really loading into the hip as you are doing in that video.

 

[Tepi]

Best I can describe it likely feels to you now is you are turning "from behind" so your butt is facing the target, but you're feeling like you're really loading into that rear hip internally, building a lot of tension. Then you're pushing laterally forward, trying to turn back more, but really those things kind of cancel out so you appear to be the same turned back angle while moving to the target closed.

This is excactly what I feel! I believe this is the reason I open upto to plant instead of close into it? So I should be doing stride -> turn instead of turn -> stride as I'm doing now?

 

[Tepi]

Think I made some progress today on that front hip clearing after doing some kick the can drill. Head still tilted wrong and it makes me want to cry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e15MJ2nUJaM

Does that look more right on getting on top of front hip and clearing it? Atleast made the throwing feel quite effortless

 

[slowplastic]

Way better balance on the back hip to me, nice fast fix.

With the head thing...it almost looks to me like you pull/yank/throw the right shoulder too much or too soon during the throw? That would kind of take it right too early and take the balance out from "under your head" so it looks like the head isn't supported anymore.

Try EXACTLY what is happening in this video part, so you are fully on the front leg and then fully on the back leg. With something in your hand that has a bit of weight. Feel the pump. For example, when the disc/object is coming down from the backswing you should start feeling like the front leg is down. Then when the object is halfway down to the bottom, the front leg should be ready to "pump" through the bottom of the arc and the object should have a lot of added leverage to go all the way forward. Then it starts falling down, left leg can start to pump it once it's halfway to the bottom, then it pumps/leverages it all the way back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-KVWfUkQ3s#t=3m14s

 

[Tepi]

.
With the head thing...it almost looks to me like you pull/yank/throw the right shoulder too much or too soon during the throw? That would kind of take it right too early and take the balance out from "under your head"

That is probably spot on, so I basically strong arm the disc? This happens on 1 leg drill aswell. What could I do to fix this?

Thanks!

 

[sidewinder22]

You really need to swing the front leg/hip further back away and tilt more, it will feel weird like your head/spine is really tipping over to the target to counter balance the leg swinging away. Then you can really swing front leg through with all your weight.

This is only swinging the leg instead of whole body:

 

[Tepi]

Thanks, have to work more on that drill and find the balance.

 

[Tepi]

Some progress with getting arc more infront of me, other than that just update. Winter is coming...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qnf9u5p-UkU

 

[slowplastic]

I think you're a bit too to the right/heel side of the plant foot with your body weight rather than more on top of the foot and easier to rotate through.

 

[sidewinder22]

Definitely much improved from the beginning of this thread, but still same fundamental swing sequence issue. Looks like a hooked hyzer where you are still turning slightly ahead of your weightshift. Need to learn to throw a left to right turnover distance line, and loosen up in the backswing and shift from behind you and resist turning open/compress and leverage the swing from the ground.

Stop trying to put the disc in a certain place in the backswing, looks like you are actively raising the arm/disc and trying to make it wide to the top of the backswing. Let the arm/disc swing back on it's own weight/inertia and abandon it to gravity like it's a heavy sledgehammer. You don't try to the manipulate the sledgehammer in the backswing, you let it swing to the top of the backswing and position yourself to hammer through.

 

[Tepi]

Stop trying to put the disc in a certain place in the backswing, looks like you are actively raising the arm/disc and trying to make it wide to the top of the backswing. Let the arm/disc swing back on it's own weight/inertia and abandon it to gravity like it's a heavy sledgehammer. You don't try to the manipulate the sledgehammer in the backswing, you let it swing to the top of the backswing and position yourself to hammer through.

Thanks, I started to work on that forward pump sometime ago to help with the timing, but totally forgot the backswing part of it.

Tried to work on it the way you swing and looked like this. (Hate throwing from grass, but was pretty much only option this time)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2HB1yQkWFY

Feel like I easily end up collapsing my upper arm angle, but that's probably because I turn open too fast? Not sure how to work on that resisting of turning open

 

[sidewinder22]

You are still flat footed and getting weight stuck back on the rear leg. That causes your front side to collapse by trying to push the rear side too late through a braced front side. Have to shift everything forward off rear foot before swinging on front foot.
Crush the Can 2.1 raise rear foot off the ground, Turbo Encabulator - Ride the Bull.

 

[Tepi]

Trying to limit disc throwing a bit to let body rest from throwing so much with bad form. This might sound like a stupid question but here it goes.

In ride the bull drill, when you are on your toes and shift your weight from one foot to other your femurs turn inwards everytime you shift from side to side. Is this how people turn closed into plant and would you call this "shifting from behind"?

Could I practise timing by actually throwing from this position, starting the discs forward motion by first shifting closed to plant?

 

[sidewinder22]

Trying to limit disc throwing a bit to let body rest from throwing so much with bad form. This might sound like a stupid question but here it goes.

In ride the bull drill, when you are on your toes and shift your weight from one foot to other your femurs turn inwards everytime you shift from side to side. Is this how people turn closed into plant and would you call this "shifting from behind"?

Could I practise timing by actually throwing from this position, starting the discs forward motion by first shifting closed to plant?

I'm actually externally rotating to push the weight forward or to other foot. The internal rotation happens as a byproduct/recoil of the weight leaving the foot and internal torque that was there between both legs returning to neutral. Yes, I would say this is "from behind", and you could throw like this although I'm not sure how far.

 

[Tepi]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BYITwOLHY66/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=fx2qrv517itp

Never really watched much of pro-players slow motions, posting this here for personal study material and to hear your opinions. This is Joona Heinänen, dude throws a mile. There's many things about his form that makes it appeal to me, just looks so fluid and spring-like.

That shoulder uncorking is something I pian on trying. I believe it could help with shifting from behind by focusing only on backswing and letting them uncork naturally.

 

[Tepi]

Or maybe I'm just seeing something that's not there. It looked like his upper body/shoulders turned back so much it creates a "tendon" bounce that fires everything and creates that spring effect. When infact crush the can starts the downswing?

However looking at his shoulder turn made me realise why SW told me to turn further back sometime ago.