2013 Discraft Ace Race

[Future_Primitive]

Interesting rule change, I played in 2 Ace Race events last year, one early and one later on. I did pay the full price ($25) each time and got 2 player packs. However, I did not use the "new" discs in the later event, I used my "seasoned" disc from the early event. I wanted to keep the new discs new so they could be moved later on if I chose to. Also liked the feel of the seasoned Ace Race disc as well. Looks like that will not be allowed this year. Hmmm.

 

[fritothedog]

I don't mind that rule. Perhaps it would be better if the rule was you had to use *THIS* year's discs. I think everyone should use the same disc since that is sort of the idea of the Ace Race. Someone stated that Discraft uses it as a sort of proving grounds. Having to buy multiple player packs in the same year seems a bit harsh but using an old Ace Race disc could give a player quite an advantage.

That said, I will only play one Ace Race per year most likely.

 

[tbird888]

Interesting rule change, I played in 2 Ace Race events last year, one early and one later on. I did pay the full price ($25) each time and got 2 player packs. However, I did not use the "new" discs in the later event, I used my "seasoned" disc from the early event. I wanted to keep the new discs new so they could be moved later on if I chose to. Also liked the feel of the seasoned Ace Race disc as well. Looks like that will not be allowed this year. Hmmm.

I'm pretty sure that's not a new rule.

 

[deadbody]

I don't mind that rule. Perhaps it would be better if the rule was you had to use *THIS* year's discs. I think everyone should use the same disc since that is sort of the idea of the Ace Race. Someone stated that Discraft uses it as a sort of proving grounds. Having to buy multiple player packs in the same year seems a bit harsh but using an old Ace Race disc could give a player quite an advantage.

That said, I will only play one Ace Race per year most likely.

Using the current years Ace Race disc was always the rule.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

At $25 a pack for two Ti discs and goodies, does anyone really think DC is doing this out of greed?
I'm not saying they're necessarily losing money on the deal, but they aren't running to the bank on this.

The spirit of the event is that everyone's on a level playing field having the same (lack of) exposure to the mold. They're just trying to ensure (as best they can) no one has a distinct advantage by having thrown the disc before. Can they stop people from entering more than one event? No, but by stipulating all players must purchase a player's pack, at least there's that small $25 hurdle. Anything further really isn't feasible.

Do I have an major issue with some one throwing discs from a previous event for a reduced fee? Only inasmuch as they have a distinct advantage having thrown at least 36 shots with it... maybe quite a bit more. If you don't think throwing a few rounds gives you a better understanding of what a disc is gonna do than throwing one or two shots, you're not not getting enough info from your throws.

Winning an event where I had that kind of distinct advantage would feel a bit hollow, but that's me. I'd probably feel a bit miffed if I came in 2nd to someone who's played a couple of rounds with the disc already, but I wouldn't pitch a fit. I love these events because they're loads of fun and you generally get more than your money's worth in the package.

Either way, (i.e. no one's played before, someone paid $10/re-using discs from the week before, someone played last week, but paid $25 for a new pkg)... I'm not losing any sleep over it.
I'm having fun and you can't stop me.

Perhaps it would be better if the rule was you had to use *THIS* year's discs. I think everyone should use the same disc since that is sort of the idea of the Ace Race.

That is most definitely the rule!

The real issue is experience with this year's disc.

 

[apparition]

Reread the issue though. You have him and another mouth breather stating they think people should be throwing these discs for the very first time at the Ace Race. Unless they are playing the first ones of the year (Like I am, Becker MN on August 3rd, want to come throw with me or tell me I am retarded to my face? I'll be there /shameless cheap plug) they will already have had a chance to throw the disc. Disc variety from one to another is pretty consistent. If I go to one ace race, and get the discs, and then spend a month throwing it, going to another and getting the same disc in the same weight it will be pretty similar and I will have the same advantage.

If Discraft is going to allow people to play in more than 1 ace race (which I don't think they could really stop anyways) then there is no reason other than greed to state that they have to buy a full new players pack instead of using the current ace race disc that they have already purchased.

Maybe they don't understand that Discraft is releasing 1 mold for all the Ace Races, or they are thinking that they can show up with an ace race disc from a few years ago (Hornet anyone) and try and use that, both of those thoughts are stupidity talking. His opinion is stupid and wrong because it has no basis in fact. It would be like me stating my opinion is that the world is flat. It would be wrong even though it is my opinion.

I understand the issue and I didn't call you retarded. I just didn't see a reason for the "You sir are an idiot" comment, when it's just an opinion. I've never been to MN, but if I could make it I'm sure we'd have a good time throwing!

I am in favor of the new rule. One of the great things about the ace race is everyone is using a new mold for the first time.

I figured he meant it's great because everyone is using a "new disc" for the first time. DC is setting the rule that if you're playing in more than one, each time you need to throw the discs from that AR's player pack. Could that be because there's a midseason mold tweak? Or just because throwing the same disc all Ace Race season gives you an unfair advantage? I don't know and it doesn't matter what our opinions are, just that the rule has been set.

 

[fritothedog]

Using the current years Ace Race disc was always the rule.

Yes, I guess I was more saying you shouldn't have to buy a new player's pack for each Ace Race you attend this year but you can't use Ace Race discs from past years.

 

[apparition]

Yes, I guess I was more saying you shouldn't have to buy a new player's pack for each Ace Race you attend this year but you can't use Ace Race discs from past years.

But now the rule is you have to use the discs from the player's pack you receive the day of each event.

 

[deadbody]

But now the rule is you have to use the discs from the player's pack you receive the day of each event.

Which is stupid.

Also it is a greed issue for Discraft, they are making money on the Ace Race. Anyone who says different is naive to say the least. If people are allowed to buy 1 ace race pack and then pay a small fee to the TD to use it in multiple ace races that is money that doesn't go to discraft. There is really no other reason to do this. The fairness and newness of a mold issue is laughable since they can have played in other ace races, and DC is pretty good about consistency so the new disc will throw about the same as the old disc.

 

[deadbody]

Yes, I guess I was more saying you shouldn't have to buy a new player's pack for each Ace Race you attend this year but you can't use Ace Race discs from past years.

And that was how it was allowed in years past. That is what discraft is now saying they won't allow.

It will make the events smaller.

 

[deadbody]

I understand the issue and I didn't call you retarded. I just didn't see a reason for the "You sir are an idiot" comment, when it's just an opinion. I've never been to MN, but if I could make it I'm sure we'd have a good time throwing!


I figured he meant it's great because everyone is using a "new disc" for the first time. DC is setting the rule that if you're playing in more than one, each time you need to throw the discs from that AR's player pack. Could that be because there's a midseason mold tweak? Or just because throwing the same disc all Ace Race season gives you an unfair advantage? I don't know and it doesn't matter what our opinions are, just that the rule has been set.

And I didn't call you an idiot because you seem to understand what is being discussed. The person(s) I referred to as stupid don't seem to.

 

[bradharris]

Also it is a greed issue for Discraft, they are making money on the Ace Race. Anyone who says different is naive to say the least. If people are allowed to buy 1 ace race pack and then pay a small fee to the TD to use it in multiple ace races that is money that doesn't go to discraft. There is really no other reason to do this. The fairness and newness of a mold issue is laughable since they can have played in other ace races, and DC is pretty good about consistency so the new disc will throw about the same as the old disc.

If they are actually making money off the sales of players packs, it's minimal. The money they're losing to players who don't buy multiples is such a tiny drop in the bucket that it's not even worth considering.

 

[apparition]

Which is stupid.

Also it is a greed issue for Discraft, they are making money on the Ace Race. Anyone who says different is naive to say the least. If people are allowed to buy 1 ace race pack and then pay a small fee to the TD to use it in multiple ace races that is money that doesn't go to discraft. There is really no other reason to do this. The fairness and newness of a mold issue is laughable since they can have played in other ace races, and DC is pretty good about consistency so the new disc will throw about the same as the old disc.

The reason to do this is that if you have a disc that you "season" (essentially changing the disc) and get to know from August 3 to the end of October, then it's entirely possible to argue that you may have an unfair advantage over the players who are playing an event with a brand new disc (not really just for the first time). Especially for the players playing for the first time at the end of October. If you want to play in many events, you're going to have to pay for it each time.

Yes, it would bring more money into DC, but I don't think AR's are big money-makers. I think the point is for the tournament to be fun for all people competing. You KNOW if you win the super competitive people will look at your seasoned discs and get pissed, right?

 

[deadbody]

If they are actually making money off the sales of players packs, it's minimal. The money they're losing to players who don't buy multiples is such a tiny drop in the bucket that it's not even worth considering.

Then why institute the new rule?

Were that that many complaints about people using the discs they had previously purchased? How is playing in a 2nd one and buying a new players pack different? You get a new disc that thanks to DC's pretty good quality control will fly the same as the one you already had. You have time if you wanted to go break it in quick with some skips off the parking lot or drives into a tree you can do it.

If you are the super competetive type and you are playing in an Ace Race in October you have already bought a couple of the discs off the marketplace or facebook to test out and use.

I played in 3 ace races 2 years ago, because I could keep using the Zepplin and hang out with my friends for like $10. I wouldn't have paid $25 to get more of a disc that I thought was terrible. Ditto last year, I wanted to play in a couple more that my schedule didn't allow cause the $15 discount was enough to get me to come out and throw more with a disc I didn't care for (Zombee). This year I will be playing in 1 unless I love the disc. Because not being able to get a discount to play means that I will end up with more of the disc that might not have much in the way of resale value, and I already have too many discs.

 

[tbird888]

Which is stupid.

Also it is a greed issue for Discraft, they are making money on the Ace Race. Anyone who says different is naive to say the least. If people are allowed to buy 1 ace race pack and then pay a small fee to the TD to use it in multiple ace races that is money that doesn't go to discraft. There is really no other reason to do this. The fairness and newness of a mold issue is laughable since they can have played in other ace races, and DC is pretty good about consistency so the new disc will throw about the same as the old disc.

Do you not have another course in your town? If you don't want to follow the rules, go play by yourself. Problem solved.

Have a problem with Discraft, as a business, making money? Start your own company and give your product away and see how long you stay in business. Disc golf exists because Wham-O! wanted to sell frisbees. No matter how fun and exciting something is, chances are someone made money off it so you could later enjoy it.

You sound like a self-entitled little brat because you want to play the event (that's focused entirely around discs you don't even like/want) but spend less money than everyone else. I'll reiterate...if you don't want to follow the rules, go play by yourself for a day or suck it up and pay for another pack.

 

[jhgonzo]

Well, DC replied to my inquiry on their FB page:

"Hi Jason, all TDs are responsible to be familiar with and follow the rules, we are having to be more strict in finding and preventing rules infractions in order to maintain a consistent playing experience for all players regardless of location. The rules you are asking about have been in place for years. All players must be charged the full entry fee of $25 (up to $35 outside of US), no more or less; all players must receive a complete player pack and must use a disc from that pack, ie no 'seasoned' discs. All these rules have been provided to you via TD info kit and via newsletter, all TDs agree to follow them or Ace Race must regrettably refuse their event order and/or refuse any future event scheduling. It is not our desire to play the heavy in enforcing rules, but as the event grows larger it becomes more critical to maintain consistency and fairness. We appreciate your understanding and cooperation, if you have further questions please drop a line to [email protected]. Thanks."


First off, I dispute the claim that this rule has been in place "for years"; I have been diligent about reading the rules and anything pertinent for TDs every year I've done this, and this is the first time the website or DC has addressed this. I certainly don't want to be barred from running future events, so I guess my hands are tied unless I allow this with my regular repeat players but don't advertise it like I usually do...but now that I've publicly outed myself as one of these "unfair" TDs, I guess I should run it like I'm under surveillance.

My turnout this year will be the deciding factor if I continue to run Ace Races after 2013. I've had increased turnout year after year (2008: 22 players; 2009: 30; 2010: 44; 2011: 50; 2012: 65), so if I see a sharp decline in registration (like I said, I usually accommodate 6-10 players with "seasoned discs," and was expecting more this year due to the lateness of my event) I may not continue with Ace Races -- although my Gateway Ace Revenge is completely my creation, so I can do whatever I want and will definitely continue with that!

I also wish DC would update the part of their site where TDs are informed of their profit potential -- the cost of the packs is $18, with "approximately $1-$2 shipping per pack." I'm in WI, and for the last few years the shipping has been more than $3/pack, making this sound more lucrative than it really is. I've never been in it to make money (broke even most years, went in the hole one year, but that's what I get for supplying prizes with my money!), but they have NEVER updated this point, and I wonder what the shipping is like for more distant events!

 

[deadbody]

Do you not have another course in your town? If you don't want to follow the rules, go play by yourself. Problem solved.

Have a problem with Discraft, as a business, making money? Start your own company and give your product away and see how long you stay in business. Disc golf exists because Wham-O! wanted to sell frisbees. No matter how fun and exciting something is, chances are someone made money off it so you could later enjoy it.

You sound like a self-entitled little brat because you want to play the event (that's focused entirely around discs you don't even like/want) but spend less money than everyone else. I'll reiterate...if you don't want to follow the rules, go play by yourself for a day or suck it up and pay for another pack.

Reading comprehesion FTL. I have lots of other courses, I play them often. To play those events and spend less money I also forgo getting anything from the players pack. That is no longer an option? Fine, but DC should understand that it will impact quite a few of their ace races because people like me who would otherwise possibly come out won't, simply because nothing else in the players pack is stuff you need more of.

I have no problem with them making money, I hope they continue to make money so they can continue to make discs. I just want them to be clear on why they are doing it.

 

[tbird888]

From 2011's Ace Race. Left column, under the Rules of Play category.

Players are required to use the player package discs, and only these discs. If a disc is lost, the player has the option of using the second disc from the package. Only one throw per player per hole.

From 2010's Ace Race. Same spot.

Players are required to use the player package discs, and only these discs. If a disc is lost, the player has the option of using the second disc from the package. Only one throw per player per hole.

 

[tbird888]

To play those events and spend less money I also forgo getting anything from the players pack. That is no longer an option?

That hasn't been an option for quite some time.

 

[apparition]

From 2011's Ace Race. Left column, under the Rules of Play category.

From 2010's Ace Race. Same spot.

But this is the first year they're explicitly stating you must use the discs from each individual event's player package and the TD must charge each player the same amount, correct?

Their reasons are clear: to be as fair as possible. They're new verbiage is clear. With every change that is made to protocols there will always be people who disagree, and some will strongly disagree. I think it's important that if people really don't like the changes, they need to speak up. Just do so in a polite, but firm way and follow through. It's entirely possible that they may change the rule if enough people have a problem with it!