2017 European Open

[lyleoross]

Hot take here (not really)... Hole 16 with the hay bales is a dumb hole. Anytime you have to make special rules to make a hole more dramatic makes the hole dumb in my opinion. In fact, I am opposed to unique rules on specific holes for any event. BUNCR is bad. It is confusing for spectators and overall a bad look for the sport. I think a good equation would be if suddenly in the 8th inning of a baseball game, it was 4 strikes for an out.

I was all set to argue this point and then I read your post. Nicely written. I will say that I prefer this hole to similar holes at USDGC. But you're correct. At the time I saw RW burn on this hole a couple of years ago, I thought, "he just couldn't handle the pressure.". Now it just seems a bad way to wipe out a previously great round.

 

[jvphobic]

I was all set to argue this point and then I read your post. Nicely written. I will say that I prefer this hole to similar holes at USDGC. But you're correct. At the time I saw RW burn on this hole a couple of years ago, I thought, "he just couldn't handle the pressure.". Now it just seems a bad way to wipe out a previously great round.

I think that they could make the island a bit bigger and put the basket near the front of the OB. That would help prevent players from blowing past the island into the OB and getting an easy circle 4. Again, just hate the change in rules for a specific hole at a major.

 

[Silentmatters]

Watching the first round on DiscTV, I felt bad for Eagle - seems he just lost it in the back 9. His confidence, footing, and flight path DISCretion seemed to be messed up and rushed. Glad to see he snapped back today. Wish Ricky had done the same - seems a bit odd with him so far down the list. -4 and -3 rounds is definitely not him.

 

[Flick Maniac]

Looks like my wish came true for the lead card, not on the 2nd, but for the 3rd round. Will be tastiness itself to view. IN PERSON! Psyched to be going tomorrow, even if for a few measly hours. (3 to be exact).

 

[Voodoo Magic]

Wow, Barsby still going hot! This shapes up to be an epic battle between Paul and him. Will anyone else rise to challenge? I expect full on McBeast mode tomorrow on the moving day.

 

[JC17393]

If the PDGA and the board decide that they want to allow different "levels" of OB, basically including hazards, I will live with that. Personally I am against it as it adds confusion to our sport to do this on specific holes. To me it would be the same as having a 2-meter rule on specific trees or holes. No sir... I don't like it.

Guess this is where we differ. Two-meter penalty on specific trees and holes is already specifically allowed in the rule book and I think it's great. No need to make every tree on the course a potential penalty when there's only one (or one hole's worth) that requires it. Design and strategy on hole 6 shouldn't be dictated by a feature on hole 16 or whatever. Each hole should be able to present its own unique challenges with, if necessary, its own rules applications.

I think as long as it is made clear what rule applies, there should be no confusion. One universal blanket rule for OB or hazards/penalties of any kind rather than, as you call it, levels, is boring to me. Some holes work better with a drop zone instead of allowing play from last in bounds. Some holes are overly punitive to have landing in a certain area carry both loss of distance and a penalty.

Variety is the spice of life.

 

[lyleoross]

Wow, Barsby still going hot! This shapes up to be an epic battle between Paul and him. Will anyone else rise to challenge? I expect full on McBeast mode tomorrow on the moving day.

Love what he's doing. I especially like the way he acknowledges the fans. It's a full on smile at the applause with a hat tip. Nice!

 

[Voodoo Magic]

Guess this is where we differ. Two-meter penalty on specific trees and holes is already specifically allowed in the rule book and I think it's great. No need to make every tree on the course a potential penalty when there's only one (or one hole's worth) that requires it. Design and strategy on hole 6 shouldn't be dictated by a feature on hole 16 or whatever. Each hole should be able to present its own unique challenges with, if necessary, its own rules applications.

I think as long as it is made clear what rule applies, there should be no confusion. One universal blanket rule for OB or hazards/penalties of any kind rather than, as you call it, levels, is boring to me. Some holes work better with a drop zone instead of allowing play from last in bounds. Some holes are overly punitive to have landing in a certain area carry both loss of distance and a penalty.

Variety is the spice of life.

Completely agree with this. I think hole 16 is fine the way it is now: punishes for bad shots but doesn't blow up your score immediately after one failed approach to the difficult island.

 

[Voodoo Magic]

Love what he's doing. I especially like the way he acknowledges the fans. It's a full on smile at the applause with a hat tip. Nice!

Yes. And the crowd was going nuts today for him. Watch those Instagram videos (@dgworldtour) everyone, there was some lively, even rowdy gallery today! (hope they didn't move around during putts)

 

[Voodoo Magic]

Devan Owens ace on hole 9.

So apparently Big Jerm told this fan to film this shot, because there could well be an ace. Your best guesses on what kind of dark magic is Koling practicing and why is his power to be forever a witness, never the star?

 

[ToddL]

Touching or supporting point?

If i shift weight and the back leg is coming upwards, that is IMO not a supporting point. You have like 0% weight on it.

http://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/800-introduction/80002-definitions
Supporting Point - At the time of release, any part of a player's body that is in contact with the playing surface or some other object that provides support.

 

[Hyzer Ale]

I think that we need an ITB for Barsby. Anyone know what he is throwing. Is his forehand primarily a Boss?

 

[Lazerface]

I think that they could make the island a bit bigger and put the basket near the front of the OB. That would help prevent players from blowing past the island into the OB and getting an easy circle 4. Again, just hate the change in rules for a specific hole at a major.

I have to see the hole to understand it more, but generally speaking I think the BUNKR rule is great in many cases. As you pointed out, to avoid the miss the island and easy tap in using regular OB rules, or brutal stroke and distance (also OK with this if applied correctly). My question is - can they lay up to like 200 feet or so, then pitch onto the island? If so, then throwing over and over and missing is on the player and I think BUNKR holes are a good way to create a ton of pressure without brutal stroke and distance penalties.

I have to agree with JC that I like the flexibility of our OB rules. Putting and approaching is too easy in disc golf and we need rules that create more suspense. It just needs to be fair and have a good balance of risk/reward. Sometimes the data is plain as day and holes are just BAD by definition on paper (hole 17 USDGC), but they are so great to watch as a fan.
I'm curious if this hole is like 17 at the USDGC, which is not poorly designed and IMO the scoring spread tends to come down to the vast majority of players not opting for the lay-up zone on that hole and then mentally breaking down after missing it. From my memory Feldberg always pitched off the tee then onto the island for a 3 or 4. I'm not sure 17 ever bit him like it has many over the years. It requires ego suppression and intelligent golf.

Again, I need to know more about the hole and may agree with you once I watch some footage.

 

[RistoS]

I have to see the hole to understand it more, but generally speaking I think the BUNKR rule is great in many cases. As you pointed out, to avoid the miss the island and easy tap in using regular OB rules, or brutal stroke and distance (also OK with this if applied correctly). My question is - can they lay up to like 200 feet or so, then pitch onto the island? If so, then throwing over and over and missing is on the player and I think BUNKR holes are a good way to create a ton of pressure without brutal stroke and distance penalties.

The hole is a 728 foot par 4, where most MPO players have a 250-300 foot approach to the island. Players can also opt for the ~200 foot layup route you mentioned.

Spoiler

Nate Doss in fact used it today after missing the island twice, and ended up taking a 6.

At 24:29 of this video.

 

[JC17393]

I have to see the hole to understand it more, but generally speaking I think the BUNKR rule is great in many cases. As you pointed out, to avoid the miss the island and easy tap in using regular OB rules, or brutal stroke and distance (also OK with this if applied correctly). My question is - can they lay up to like 200 feet or so, then pitch onto the island? If so, then throwing over and over and missing is on the player and I think BUNKR holes are a good way to create a ton of pressure without brutal stroke and distance penalties.

I have to agree with JC that I like the flexibility of our OB rules. Putting and approaching is too easy in disc golf and we need rules that create more suspense. It just needs to be fair and have a good balance of risk/reward. Sometimes the data is plain as day and holes are just BAD by definition on paper (hole 17 USDGC), but they are so great to watch as a fan.
I'm curious if this hole is like 17 at the USDGC, which is not poorly designed and IMO the scoring spread tends to come down to the vast majority of players not opting for the lay-up zone on that hole and then mentally breaking down after missing it. From my memory Feldberg always pitched off the tee then onto the island for a 3 or 4. I'm not sure 17 ever bit him like it has many over the years. It requires ego suppression and intelligent golf.

Again, I need to know more about the hole and may agree with you once I watch some footage.

The hole in question is a par 4 with an island green. From the videos I've seen (Feldberg bogey 5, Lizotte birdie 3, Barsby birdie 3) players are throwing their tee shots, and then faced with a go-for-it-or-lay-up choice on their second shot. The green isn't huge but it isn't tiny either, plus it's on the side of a hill and you're throwing into the slope from below.

 

[lyleoross]

The hole is a 728 foot par 4, where most MPO players have a 250-300 foot approach to the island. Players can also opt for the ~200 foot layup route you mentioned.

Spoiler

Nate Doss in fact used it today after missing the island twice, and ended up taking a 6.

At 24:29 of this video.

I hadn't realized this. I also went back and looked at play on the hole. Players seem to go wrong when they over push. Watching Paul and Barsby hit this hole with good level headed throws show that it is quite doable, you just have to keep your head in the game.

 

[lyleoross]

The hole in question is a par 4 with an island green. From the videos I've seen (Feldberg bogey 5, Lizotte birdie 3, Barsby birdie 3) players are throwing their tee shots, and then faced with a go-for-it-or-lay-up choice on their second shot. The green isn't huge but it isn't tiny either, plus it's on the side of a hill and you're throwing into the slope from below.

If you go back and look at Ricky's blow up on the hole, he went short, skipped long, and skipped in and back out. It did look like he was pushing too hard, he didn't take the time to settle himself, taking throw after throw. I agree, the green looks more manageable than other island greens.

Perhaps a discussion of whether holes that require this much risk reward thinking, is in order? I would say they are good, but clearly, few take the lay up. Nate Doss did this in USDGC a couple of years ago, but he's the only person I recall doing that. If everyone did, the hole would be a disaster. It's the balance between risk management and go for it, that makes the hole.

 

[JTacoma03]

I think that we need an ITB for Barsby. Anyone know what he is throwing. Is his forehand primarily a Boss?

I tried so hard last year...but it was like chasing a rabbit, lol.

 

[sidewinder22]

I tried so hard last year...but it was like chasing a rabbit, lol.

Did you try dangling a carrot?

 

[joots]

three cheers for Barsby so far. I just hope the wheels don't come off. It is always fun to watch a disc golfer, especially one who has such zest and charisma, to come out from the shadow of the usual suspects and shine. We saw it with Adam Hamme at the Worlds, and now Barsby at the EO. I know he's been around the tour circuit for awhile, but he has never captured the limelight like others. Go Gregg! BTW, does anybody else think that he looks like Dave Grohl?