2019 Pros Switching Sponsors Official Thread

[broomerang]

I'm only quoting Owler, who was saying Merrell has an annual sale of $31.1 Million and Innova has an annual sale of $52 Million. It's not accurate an a BS source.

one mistake doesn't mean all the data is invalid. Keen is listed at 347 million.

https://www.owler.com/company/keenfootwear

I can't tell if your more upset that the owler data shows Innova making more than Discraft or if your just upset that it shows any disc golf company making 50 million in yearly revenue.

Despite the flawed Owler statistics there are plenty of opportunities for companies like Discraft to grow without spending their own money. It wouldn't be that hard for them to show investors that there is potential to grow the disc golf side of the business. Only takes a handful of people that are willing to put $30-50k up for the potential into turning it into $500k.

This makes zero sense. If I was to believe that a 30k investment would make me a 300k return I would need to see at least 3 million in sales before I invested a dime. The company would then have to grow to 30 million in sales. Disc Golf is a very small market too, you seem to believe it's so small that theres no way a company could make 50 million in sales today. That means there is a ton of risk. Your view isn't adding up.

I'm not saying the numbers on Owler are correct. I merely found them and I believe them to be plausible. You don't have to agree but until you post something logical in response I'm going to keep responding to you.

 

[riltim]

Some of their competitors do sponsor events. There is so many flaws to your logic here. Many disc golfers already own those products, therefore the consumer market is already saturated. Those companies probably don't believe it would be a good return compared to there other marketing dollars.



cell phone? HAHA no. I'm talking about your companies phone service and data circuits. I was being a bit flippant I'll admit but you're absolutely incorrect that a company that makes 52.5 million in revenue is "large" in the manufacturing business.

An apples to pears comparison: Callaway 1.05 billion in revenue.

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/ely/financials

Maybe someone with experience in injection molding could contribute more appropriate details.



That has nothing to do with knowing how much revenue your company makes every year. You're hurting your own credibility with every post.

By stating a billion dollar manufacture like Callaway it's quite obvious that you don't know anything about manufacturing. For every mega corporation like Dow and BASF there are thousands of mid level companies pushing millions of dollars into the plastic industry each year. Dow and BASF contracts are a bear to deal with and you can probably make almost equal money dealing with a handful of mid level companies as you can with the big players with less effort. There is a lot of money to be made and vendors are chomping at the bit to get in the door.

As far as me knowing the revenue of the PRIVATE company I work for, I'm just as likely to know what they're paying in taxes annually. I'm an electrical engineer and I'm responsible for the contracts that I quoted and need to complete within that budget. While I know the sell price and profit of each contract I work on I am not privy to all other aspects of the business including aftermarket sales, patent profits, land leases, other products, etc. that would give me a total picture how much money the company is making annually.

 

[riltim]

This makes zero sense. If I was to believe that a 30k investment would make me a 300k return I would need to see at least 3 million in sales before I invested a dime. The company would then have to grow to 30 million in sales. Disc Golf is a very small market too, you seem to believe it's so small that theres no way a company could make 50 million in sales today. That means there is a ton of risk. Your view isn't adding up

Ton of risk based on your understanding of the situation. But for all you know the property of the Discraft factory could be significantly more valuable than the annual profits and I'd be willing to bet it's zoned commercial. Maybe the investors have a light risk of turning the disc golf side around and making some profit but have a fall back plan of selling off the name and turning the property into warehousing or some other highly profitable venture. This is all speculation but this is how businesses actually work.

 

[riltim]

I don't know much about Hydroflask, but the numbers for Merrell and Nalgene seem WAY low.

As for Innova, I suspect in the last ten years or so, they have gone from being a nicely profitable company, to being an extremely profitable company. If they think McBeth is worth it, they'll easily match or exceed any other offer.

I agree. I'd wager that Dicks Sporting Goods sells a significant amount of Merrell shoes or Nalgene bottles compared to Innova discs. It would explain why both are prominently displayed throughout the store while the disc golf stuff is usually tucked way in a far corner of the store or on a random end cap near the can jam stuff.

 

[DiscFifty]

That's probably why he told those DG Group people that they could stay outside when he negotiates with Innova. Whoever he ends up with, I'd bet he gets a better deal doing it himself than having them represent him.

Not enough money in the pot to give it a cut to The DGI Group or any agent.

 

[DiscJunkie]

OK ladies and gents.
I could agree that this is an interesting discussion for some folks...
You might even argue that it's pertinent to the discussion at hand...in some abstract, informational way.

But we could probably serve the forum better if it were carried on in a different thread.

Back to the discussion about who will throw for whom in the coming year,
Please?

 

[DiscFifty]

They'd have to sell 1,430 discs a day....

Based on my frank talk with distributors, dealers, etc, I'd say that is doable.

 

[Halcón]

They'd have to sell 1,430 discs a day

They're selling that many before lunch.

 

[rhatton1]

I also have a tough time believing Innova is bringing in $52.5 million a year. They'd have to bring in a little over $14k a day every day of the year to hit that mark. They'd have to sell 1,430 discs a day at $10 a piece or 33 baskets a day at $425.

You might want to double check your maths before any more purchasing..... add a zero.... They're also not selling at anywhere near $10 an item for a lot of their bulk distribution in discs.

And yet despite what seems like astronomical figures, my own research on this whilst setting up my own Disc Golf related business, suggests that they are well over 20 million a year revenue as a very conservative estimate (this was from a couple of years ago. Based on 15 years experience of purchasing in China for wholesale to retail worldwide in plastics/metal/textiles direct from factories. This gives a pretty good insight into how many discs need to be sold from molds to make them worthwhile and what volumes they are purchasing baskets/bags etc to achieve the wholesale prices they are selling for - *spoiler*, it's a lot....)

Now do remember though that turnover does not equal profit which is why Dave D/Harold haven't bought the Innova yacht yet...

Turnover for show. Profit for dough.

I suspect Discraft despite much smaller turnover is of a percentage far more profitable and potentially cash rich based on much easier Ultimate disc production/supply chain and warehousing and a better potential price point for each (direct to clubs/tournaments being a big part of their model)

Getting back to the thread, I still don't believe McBeth is leaving Innova though....

 

[Jolt]

I feel like DD could need a new strong MPO player. . their FPO and Junior team i REALLY strong, but on the MPO side they need a "top 10 player"

 

[snappyj]

I feel like DD could need a new strong MPO player. . their FPO and Junior team i REALLY strong, but on the MPO side they need a "top 10 player"

I'm still available, Robert McCall.

 

[riltim]

You might want to double check your maths before any more purchasing..... add a zero

Wow, you're right. Too many beers, my bad.

I was having a tough time believing they were pulling in the figures for $5.1m in sales. $140,000+ a day is down right laughable.

 

[Myke566]

opcorn:


(Spoiler Alert: Not real. I was just bored at work)

 

[broomerang]

OK ladies and gents.
I could agree that this is an interesting discussion for some folks...
You might even argue that it's pertinent to the discussion at hand...in some abstract, informational way.

But we could probably serve the forum better if it were carried on in a different thread.

Back to the discussion about who will throw for whom in the coming year,
Please?

Okay more uninformed guessing which pro jumps ship. Got it.

Paul McBeth turns down 500,000 from Discraft and posts something that makes fun of this thread.

Innova signs Kevin Jones.

Discraft signs Sarah Hokom and Greg Barsby.

Prodigy keeps all of their top players.

DM doesn't sign anyone.

DD , Lat64 both drop some players in order to keep bigger names.

Infinite signs GG officially.

MVP adds Matt Orum.

Nikko is Nikko.

Simon buys a sports car. Ricky buys a monster truck. Paul buys a bulldozer

 

[chosenmatrix]

Buzzz = Super Straight Modified Wasp

That was on the stamp for a number of years.

That's actually how I knew that the Wasp was first. Now my buddies and I joke when someone asks me what I am throwing when I throw a wasp, I reply "slightly stable unmodified buzzz".

 

[Maynard]

That's probably why he told those DG Group people that they could stay outside when he negotiates with Innova.

Wait... What? Was this something he said a while back when they first signed or is this something new?

 

[chosenmatrix]

Saw this up on DDGA today....

 

[Motorpro]

Wow, you're right. Too many beers, my bad.

I was having a tough time believing they were pulling in the figures for $5.1m in sales. $140,000+ a day is down right laughable.

If Innova only did $5.1 in sales a year that would not even cover its payroll much less factory space , machinery , distribution etc. Today $51 in sales for a manufacturing company makes it very small company.

 

[scarwig]

Saw this up on DDGA today....

5 different fonts on one product. :thmbup:

 

[Future_Primitive]

It's also been said about Innova and their inconsistent plastic blends, that they are at the mercy of their suppliers. A company pulling in $52.5 million a year would be have plastic suppliers beating their door down to help them produce a consistent product.

My understanding is that problem is a thing of the past when they were small and before DG became popular like it is today. Maybe back when they were trying to recapture the magic of CE plastic buying smaller batches of plastic when available. Nowadays they have a more consistent plastic to offer like their Jolly Launcher line of champion plastics.