Am Payouts stifle pro growth?

[biscoe]

$100 entry fees for A-tiers aren't why I'm not playing tournaments. As a non-current member, I am not eligible to play in them anyway.

It's the $45-60 B-tiers, plus an add on $10 fee, not to mention all the ancillary expenses associated with tournaments, that is keeping me away, not to mention the fact that even many of our unsanctioned events are now charging the same entries, since the market shows that they can.

It's a discretionary expenditure. Supply and demand. I can assure you I'm not missed. Someone willing to pay the entry fee and then some have easily filled in my absence. Why would any sane TD lower his entry fees with that going on?

because they believe in the concept of amateurism and that there is some inherent value in competition in and of itself?...








...oh wait...you said sane.

 

[Jay Dub]

As somebody who:

a) is price sensitive
b) believes in playing by the rules

I have no reason to play in PDGA tournaments. People in each and every division cheat willfully and out of ignorance. So for me it's not the am payouts that are stifling prow growth, but the behavior of other pros. Not sure how to address that

Money, my age and the bold part are why I don't play. People who play by the rules as written are at a disadvantage.

 

[TimSyl]

As somebody who:

a) is price sensitive
b) believes in playing by the rules

I have no reason to play in PDGA tournaments. People in each and every division cheat willfully and out of ignorance. So for me it's not the am payouts that are stifling prow growth, but the behavior of other pros. Not sure how to address that

People cheat willfully? Where do you play?

 

[Jay Dub]

People cheat willfully? Where do you play?

Don't you watch any of the live coverage? It's all over there and discussed on social media. Foot faults galore is one example!

 

[TimSyl]

Don't you watch any of the live coverage? It's all over there and discussed on social media. Foot faults galore is one example!

Yeah I get that, but the point is if he sees people "willfully" cheating, why not call something?

 

[Jay Dub]

Yeah I get that, but the point is if he sees people "willfully" cheating, why not call something?

I wonder the same thing about the pros I watch on the live feed.

 

[robdeforge]

People cheat willfully? Where do you play?

Vermont, with some New Hampshire/New York/Mass people making appearances as well.

I call whatever I see, but at the end of every round I hear multiple stories of cheating on other cards. Shaving strokes, foot faults, basically anything and everything is fair in Vermont I guess. It got to the point where I'm the "rules guy" (in a negative way) because I want to play by the rules.

And, as Jay Dub mentioned, cheating is pretty rampant at the pro level. So in a sense it makes sense that players are picking things up from the pros, just sucks that it's cheating

 

[ru4por]

Vermont, with some New Hampshire/New York/Mass people making appearances as well.

I call whatever I see, but at the end of every round I hear multiple stories of cheating on other cards. Shaving strokes, foot faults, basically anything and everything is fair in Vermont I guess. It got to the point where I'm the "rules guy" (in a negative way) because I want to play by the rules.

And, as Jay Dub mentioned, cheating is pretty rampant at the pro level. So in a sense it makes sense that players are picking things up from the pros, just sucks that it's cheating

I am really pretty surprised by this take, as well. I am not convinced that spotting foot faults on video is evidence of rampant and willful cheating. Certainly foot faults happen, but in real time, where players are not as close as the camera, calling them is not as simple as black and white. It also does not demonstrate willful cheating either. I am sure this could be a regional thing. Playing old man divisions, I might also see less of this nefarious stuff. I am an offender, in that I don't always call violations, that don't result in a competitive advantage, but willful cheating would get me breaking out a rules book.

 

[ThrowBot]

Vermont, with some New Hampshire/New York/Mass people making appearances as well.

I call whatever I see, but at the end of every round I hear multiple stories of cheating on other cards. Shaving strokes, foot faults, basically anything and everything is fair in Vermont I guess. It got to the point where I'm the "rules guy" (in a negative way) because I want to play by the rules.

And, as Jay Dub mentioned, cheating is pretty rampant at the pro level. So in a sense it makes sense that players are picking things up from the pros, just sucks that it's cheating

Must just be a cultural thing in New England.
You see the same thing in the NFL.

 

[robdeforge]

I am really pretty surprised by this take, as well. I am not convinced that spotting foot faults on video is evidence of rampant and willful cheating. Certainly foot faults happen, but in real time, where players are not as close as the camera, calling them is not as simple as black and white. It also does not demonstrate willful cheating either. I am sure this could be a regional thing. Playing old man divisions, I might also see less of this nefarious stuff. I am an offender, in that I don't always call violations, that don't result in a competitive advantage, but willful cheating would get me breaking out a rules book.

This kind of attitude is another reason I don't play many tournaments anymore. Rules are rules for a reason and you choosing which to enforce is part of the problem.

If they didn't get a competitive advantage from breaking the rules, they should have no problem following the rules!

 

[ru4por]

This kind of attitude is another reason I don't play many tournaments anymore. Rules are rules for a reason and you choosing which to enforce is part of the problem.

If they didn't get a competitive advantage from breaking the rules, they should have no problem following the rules! ��

You are right. There is really no excuse to not be calling the guy hitting his lie 35cm behind his marker. I have excuses, like the relaxed nature of the age protected divisions and such, but they don't hold water. This is really a conversation about the difficulty and stigma around rule enforcement. It is indeed a problem, as it is in non professional levels of golf. I am only providing my experience in AM divisions. If I have a guy on my card that is missing hit lie consistently, I am inclined to start calling it. I don't think I am alone in looking the other way when someone is missing their lie by 5cm once or twice. Absence of malice is not an excuse, but I will likely continue to use it as a guideline for most of my calls.

 

[robdeforge]

You are right. There is really no excuse to not be calling the guy hitting his lie 35cm behind his marker. I have excuses, like the relaxed nature of the age protected divisions and such, but they don't hold water. This is really a conversation about the difficulty and stigma around rule enforcement. It is indeed a problem, as it is in non professional levels of golf. I am only providing my experience in AM divisions. If I have a guy on my card that is missing hit lie consistently, I am inclined to start calling it. I don't think I am alone in looking the other way when someone is missing their lie by 5cm once or twice. Absence of malice is not an excuse, but I will likely continue to use it as a guideline for most of my calls.

The PDGA rulebook states:
"Players are expected to call a violation when one has clearly occurred."

If you are able to discern a 5cm distance in real time, more power to you. I wouldn't call that because it's not clear.

 

[Dcinmd]

Around here you can play 18 with a cart for under $50 on the weekend. Thats at a very decent city course. In fact, all of the public courses around here are under $100.

But seriously, I don't care what anyone else wants to spend their money on. To me personally, playing tournaments are not worth an entry fee of $100.

Your math is off.

It is $50 to play one round of ball golf versus 3 or 4 rounds of disc golf.

 

[DiscFifty]

"$70.00 entry fee and you get a player pack worth your entry fee." I don't care. I would much rather have lower entry fees and if I want to buy a disc from your van-store in between rounds or after the tournament, I will.

 

[davetherocketguy]

I just td'ed my very first B-Tier. All I can say is, it is real tempting to run am-only events from now on. After some of the shinannigans I encoutnered today I really could not care less about pro growth. Some of these people act like they are God's great gift to tourneys. Not one am gave me this big of a headache. Maybe the pros are their own worst enemy.

Of course, I am smart enough to realize not all pros are like this. Not even the majority of them.

 

[biscoe]

I just td'ed my very first B-Tier. All I can say is, it is real tempting to run am-only events from now on. After some of the shinannigans I encoutnered today I really could not care less about pro growth. Some of these people act like they are God's great gift to tourneys. Not one am gave me this big of a headache. Maybe the pros are their own worst enemy.

Of course, I am smart enough to realize not all pros are like this. Not even the majority of them.

You can't expect to post something like this and not share the details...

 

[casinnova]

Hippies and potheads stifle the growth of disc golf ... Fixed the OP title.

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[biscoe]

Hippies and potheads stifle the growth of disc golf ... Fixed the OP title.

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That is sooo 1997...

 

[davetherocketguy]

You can't expect to post something like this and not share the details...

Yeah you're right. I'm not going to give details and therefore should not have posted that. After all the work I did to get that tourney going I was pretty frustrated last night .

 

[brutalbrutus]

Hippies and potheads stifle the growth of disc golf ... Fixed the OP title.

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If it weren't for hippies and potheads, you wouldn't be playing disc golf...