Can't overcome plateau to save my life

[newsyk]

Any criticisms ir very welcome, give me anything!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMgI1EbCik8 (last field work)

I'm kinda all over the place. Looking for some idea on what to focus on with current form.

Thank you a lot!

P.S. Plateauing hard at 330 feet

 

[Brychanus]

Welcome! Common plateau. Here's a big picture concept followed by drills I'd recommend working on in the order I'd work on it.


CONCEPTS
Everything's a little too linear. You are getting poor tilt in the backswing and downswing and getting bunched up behind your brace trying to generate power.

You can't do it without the tilted axis.



So how do you get there?



DRILLS
I think it would be good to start with the feet and weight shift. Your footwork is trying to look like a pro's, but I don't think you're getting the proper Can Crush and Butt Wipe mechanics. Your plant knee flares out toward the line of play before you plant rather than inheriting your weight and pumping to swing:

It's hard to get the rest working correctly without your feet under you and weight leading the swing. Almost everyone starting serious form work struggles with this, and I suggest starting here:





You might as well also start cleaning up your posture. Your rear arm is dragging behind you. You want the shoulders to be protracted and to coil up with tilt.

Here are a few more off arm swing drills (ignore my lower body here, I'll address that at some point).

 

[txmxer]

Not the expert, but it looks like your timing is off to me. When the disc is in the power pocket, your hips are already open so you aren't really getting the snap you are looking for.

Off hand, I'd slow it down and work on throwing at distances within your "range"--say 250 to 300 feet. I think when trying to throw max distance, it messes up the mechanics. You put in a lot more effort and get little in return.

Your run up seems to be at the 12 o'clock position rather than at the 11 o'clock angle. That might help you with the timing. Your stride also seems a bit too long to me.

Your reachback, off arm, head position, and disc angle look good to me.

 

[Brychanus]

^ I agree that throwing for max until you're pretty well-tuned mechanically often backfires.

Here's a post I shared with another rebuilding player that might be helpful to read:

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3821026&postcount=33

I agree w/ Icarus' response later in that thread to my point 5 that there are limits to only throwing slower discs. What I meant there is that they're very reliable indicators of form mistakes when you're retooling fundamental stuff, consistent with the PSA at the top of the subforum. It is usually helpful to test mechanics changes with neutral mids and putters first because they provide very clear feedback, then play with fairways + drivers.

 

[Brychanus]

One vid link broke above. Was trying to share "Don't Spill the Beverage" for the off arm:

 

[newsyk]

I'm sorry for stupid questions, but do you mean like vertical axis tilt? In that field work I had strong tailwind and since I was trying to "bomb" i was going for anhyzer angles, maybe thats why i'm not tilting enough?

 

[sidewinder22]

Your rear arm is dragging behind you. You want the shoulders to be protracted and to coil up with tilt.

Note - The rear shoulder retracts and elevates / swims in the backswing.

 

[sidewinder22]

You get too backward landing rear foot and everything gets back too early, so it all starts opening up too early into the plant.

You need to get the sensation of still turning back into backswing while planting front foot. Door Frame Drills, Open to Closed Drill and Reverse Stride Drill should help.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141816

 

[newsyk]

Now that you mentioned it, I can see it. Hips are like 1 frame ahead of everything.

Not the expert, but it looks like your timing is off to me. When the disc is in the power pocket, your hips are already open so you aren't really getting the snap you are looking for.

Off hand, I'd slow it down and work on throwing at distances within your "range"--say 250 to 300 feet. I think when trying to throw max distance, it messes up the mechanics. You put in a lot more effort and get little in return.

Your run up seems to be at the 12 o'clock position rather than at the 11 o'clock angle. That might help you with the timing. Your stride also seems a bit too long to me.

Your reachback, off arm, head position, and disc angle look good to me.

 

[newsyk]

This makes so much sense, I will try to get that sensation! Thank you.

You get too backward landing rear foot and everything gets back too early, so it all starts opening up too early into the plant.

You need to get the sensation of still turning back into backswing while planting front foot. Door Frame Drills, Open to Closed Drill and Reverse Stride Drill should help.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141816

 

[Brychanus]

Note - The rear shoulder retracts and elevates / swims in the backswing.

Thanks - I think I need to change how I talk about this make it clear that it is retracting in the backswing and protracting in the downswing no matter how I present it. The swimming is part of a perpetual motion in either direction.

Newsyk, SW22 shows this literally putting Drew Gibson next to a swimmer. The practical point for now I think is to start with "Don't spill the beverage."

 

[Brychanus]

I'm sorry for stupid questions, but do you mean like vertical axis tilt? In that field work I had strong tailwind and since I was trying to "bomb" i was going for anhyzer angles, maybe thats why i'm not tilting enough?

There are no stupid questions here, my friend. If there is one, I've probably asked it.

The tilt that I and that vid are describing has to do with the overall effect of the preferred mechanics on your swing path. If you stick with the form rebuild here, your body will eventually learn to use a tilted swing axis regardless of the throwing angle. It's a matter of how the parts of your body move in a chain relative to one another, not the angle you're throwing on.

When I say your swing is too flat or linear, it means that you have not acquired the mechanics that get your body to tilt or coil up like a double helix using your oblique sling system to throw. When your swing is too flat, you are not using the optimal muscles and kinetic chain to throw, and your form functions more like a flywheel - it's only got one axis of torque and will always limit your power ceiling. Imaging stretching or twisting a double helix - it will produce much more elastic power and torque than pulling a cable through a pulley, and more easily.

You can learn to look for the double helix & oblique slings loading and unloading in e.g., how GG and Eagle move here. This is what all of the top throwers have in common despite superficial differences in their throwing styles.

 

[txmxer]

Thanks - I think I need to change how I talk about this make it clear that it is retracting in the backswing and protracting in the downswing no matter how I present it. The swimming is part of a perpetual motion in either direction.

Newsyk, SW22 shows this literally putting Drew Gibson next to a swimmer. The practical point for now I think is to start with "Don't spill the beverage."

That's pretty cool (thanks sidewinder). It's like Drew reaches down and grabs an invisible bollard/handle and pulls against it to increase leverage.

 

[newsyk]

Soooo,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMGwJ-J7QCQ

I went for a field practice today trying to keep in mind two things:

1) Try to delay reachback so it would happen in last plant step
2) Try out the swim move

Distance wise I was all over the place and it definiteley felt different, was going for like 70% throws(sore muscles after yesterdays field practice) and with barely any wind was going for slight hyzers.

The swim move felt like im pushing my chest forward and kind of leaking over the brace. Delaying reachback, well, i'm still trying to delay even more, feels like i'm still not there.


P.S. Don't mind my t-shirt which is definitely on purpose other way around

 

[Brychanus]

^Think you gotta address the drills in the order I originally mentioned - Crush and Buttwipe. Leg action still looks the same. Work ground up in a rebuild.

Your off arm isn't functioning great yet in part because you don't have the right action in the legs going into the plant, so it can't collect into your hips correctly.

Don't worry about distance at all when first starting to rebuild. Usually gets worse before it gets better.

Backwards tshirts are permitted but not advised if restrictive lol

 

[newsyk]

Okay, so it's seem that I have to revisit my legs. I Hoped for some minor changes, but it seems it will be total revamp. I will let myself rest for few days, everything feels exhausted after 2 week daily field works and then will post if something meaningful happens in rework process.