Common Plateaus, Issues, and Breaking Through Them

[TiltedFlipCurves]

Or maybe strong arming seems so intuitive that most of us have to undo it no matter where we start.

I mean what else are you going to throw a disc with, your teeth?

Convinced nothing in this game makes any sense. or can be explained in a way that makes sense to me at least.

 

[RowingBoats]

I have read this thread for the past couple of years every so often, and it is uncanny how accurate this is. I am able to consistently throw low 400s from a standstill, and I know my brace is one of the final keys here.

I have put off learning the x-step, but I am starting to think that the x-step might make bracing more natural. Mechanically, I don't see how the x-step contributes power in and of itself, but I think maybe the motion makes getting fully braced easier.

But ugh, thats a whole new can of worms I don't know if I want to open.

 

[thingamarob]

Chiming in on this gem years later to acknowledge how helpful it is. I do wonder about the "flinging forearm" versus using shoulder distinction. For me, the flinging forearm was the piece that unlocked distance. My elbow seemed to abruptly stop and unhinge like a trebuchet and launch the disc. But this seems to indicate that that is not the ultimate goal. I'm interested in hearing more about the distinction between the "flinging forearm" and using the shoulder.

 

[Jussi Alanko]

I'm stuck at 400 feet, in my backhand. I can throw maybe 30 feet longer if i put a little bit of an anhyzer with my rive, or just hyzerflip my octane. I maybe know why i have stuck to this distance, i have been stuck at something about 330 feet in last summer, then i quickly learn how to use my legs etc. now i have thrown this summer something about 450 foot shots, but at this kind of distance, i had to concentrate at 100% to the vertical bracing and i found quite difficult to do the vertical brace at right force and right time. When i go through my x-step i just had to have more courage to come for the brace and then i had to make an triple extension with my bracing leg and this had to be perform just the right time, then disc leaves my hand with some serious speeds, but it doesn't always succeed. But when i manage to brace correctly and i manage to do the triple extension at right time and at suitable force then i can throw quite far, but it is not very consistent right now, maybe next year it is...

 

[ChrisinFL]

I'm stuck at 400 feet, in my backhand. I can throw maybe 30 feet longer if i put a little bit of an anhyzer with my rive, or just hyzerflip my octane. I maybe know why i have stuck to this distance, i have been stuck at something about 330 feet in last summer, then i quickly learn how to use my legs etc. now i have thrown this summer something about 450 foot shots, but at this kind of distance, i had to concentrate at 100% to the vertical bracing and i found quite difficult to do the vertical brace at right force and right time. When i go through my x-step i just had to have more courage to come for the brace and then i had to make an triple extension with my bracing leg and this had to be perform just the right time, then disc leaves my hand with some serious speeds, but it doesn't always succeed. But when i manage to brace correctly and i manage to do the triple extension at right time and at suitable force then i can throw quite far, but it is not very consistent right now, maybe next year it is...

I am 5 months playing, and max about 275' now, so keep in mind you drive further/better than I do. IMHO, when you have a max that you hit rarely, you just keep playing and practicing. Gradually, you hit that max more often, get the form needed for it more consistently, and eventually hit a new rare max even a little bit further. So, get that brace and triple extension you talk about (that I know nothing about) correct more often, more consistently. Then decide if you want to search for the next key to improving even more. Keep in mind, at 400-450', you are already in distance territory few of us DGers will ever reach. Not long ago I was at 225' max, and 300' seemed impossibly far away to me, and now my rare best is 275', and I seem to be having a new longest throw on at least one hole every time I throw a few rounds, and 300' seems like just a matter of when, not if! Lastly, I say just don't get too caught up in the destination, and make sure you enjoy the journey!

 

[ChrisinFL]

I feel you. I found it hard to overcome the plateau of keeping 12 girlfriends all satisfied.

LOL!

 

[ChrisinFL]

I feel you. I found it hard to overcome the plateau of keeping 12 girlfriends all satisfied.

I struggle with 1 girlfriend. Also struggle with 285' max, trying to push to 300'.

 

[John Smith1]

Great post! Very helpful. I've been playing for around 10 years. I used to contribute a lot over at DGR about 5-6 years ago when I was really playing a lot. They helped me get to the 350' plateau using the Beato drill, etc. IIRC they weren't talking about bracing at all back then, and I was totally lost on how to get my hips and legs more involved.

Then I moved overseas and stopped playing for 5 years, with only a few casual rounds on vacations back to the U.S. So I've effectively been stuck at the ~350 plateau for 5 years! Now I'm back into DG and trying to learn proper form for real. The goal over the next year is to start hitting 425' and more importantly to be hitting my lines and eliminate grip locks and slips.

Thanks to HUB, SW22, slowplastic, et al for really helping me understand these concepts. I feel like it might actually be possible to break through this plateau.

Test

 

[yossarian]

Bit of a necro-post, but seems like it's fine to prod this every year or two.

The original post resonates with me, but subtract 100' from each plateau. The problems described under The 300' Barrier (nose up, grip lock, lack of any consistency) were at The 200' Barrier for me, in my first six months or so of playing. I've now played about two years, I've practiced a lot, read a lot, started to film myself, and I'm beginning to get a handle on what good form means and how to improve mine. I'm working on brace timing, brace strength, and shoulder coil, and gains are slowly coming. I occasionally break 300', and I want to do it more consistently, but it's not easy.

For me at least, strong arming doesn't seem to get me to 300, and that's ok. I'm tall, coordinated and fit, but also 55 years old and have never been coached as an athlete (though I've played 30+ years of recreational ultimate).

Over the past two years my backhand progression has been something like ...
Frisbee throw - 125'
Drive with elbow - 150'
Start the lawnmower - 180'
Replace coffee pouring with correct placement of disc into palm - 200'
Footwork and x-step - 225'
Reach out not back, delay the pull - 250'
Shoulder coil - 275'
Don't turn backwards, brace more strongly - 300'

Currently if I throw 5 drivers in the field I may get one out to 300, and my record is probably 330.

I feel like I will get to a consistent 300 working on the things I know now. Here are notes I made after my last field session on all the little things I need to internalize ...
- relax and throw smooth
- feet perpendicular to target line
- brace foot down before pull
- shoulder coil, left shoulder to target
- reach out not back
- more hyzer than usual
- leading elbow higher than hand
- forward lean for space for power pocket
- back heel move right, to avoid spinning out and enable slam into brace

If I can get to a consistent and accurate 300 I'll be happy to plateau there for a while. I dunno how y'all are getting to 400 and beyond but that's a problem for future me (or maybe younger you).

 

[YoYoNinjaBoy]

Chiming in on this gem years later to acknowledge how helpful it is. I do wonder about the "flinging forearm" versus using shoulder distinction. For me, the flinging forearm was the piece that unlocked distance. My elbow seemed to abruptly stop and unhinge like a trebuchet and launch the disc. But this seems to indicate that that is not the ultimate goal. I'm interested in hearing more about the distinction between the "flinging forearm" and using the shoulder.

I'll take a crude crack at answering this hoping somebody else fills in the gaps because I was also quite puzzled by this at one time.

The flinging forearm is the active extension of the elbow driven by your rotation

Using the shoulder is using well... the shoulder and back muscles to further drive the flinging forearm faster.

 

[Brychanus]

I'll take a crude crack at answering this hoping somebody else fills in the gaps because I was also quite puzzled by this at one time.

The flinging forearm is the active extension of the elbow driven by your rotation

Using the shoulder is using well... the shoulder and back muscles to further drive the flinging forearm faster.

Still always recommend starting with this concept and then adapting/tweaking as needed because people have so much trouble doing it to a disc. Turn the task into the same thing you do with the arm and body for any other athletic task:

 

[TiltedFlipCurves]

Only minor improvement for me since the beginning of time. This part sticks out:

The 300' Barrier
there is no defined release point

Fix:
trying to throw short 100-150' shots and increase a little at a time

Can this defined release point even be generated at 100' power? Can the disc rip itself consistently out of the hand at low power? A guy on the course told me it should but no real success.

 

[jupiterboy]

Thanks for this post. Can you give your arm speed if possible? Might help others translate the distance details.

 

[ChrisinFL]

Only minor improvement for me since the beginning of time. This part sticks out:

Can this defined release point even be generated at 100' power? Can the disc rip itself consistently out of the hand at low power? A guy on the course told me it should but no real success.

I max out at 250-275'. I still struggle trying to get the disc to rip out - to get 'snap'. When I throw, my hand automatically releases the disc at a certain point, and I have to fight back that instinct and try to keep my grip on the disc - force it to rip out. That is on drives. So far, on low power shots, I just let my grip release instinctively. But, not sure, at what point, throwing how hard, should we try to force the rip out, versus releasing the disc?? I know at very low power, it won't rip out…

 

[TiltedFlipCurves]

Thanks for this post. Can you give your arm speed if possible? Might help others translate the distance details.

I think I'm right at 50 now with max effort. I want to say 47 last time I threw into a net with a radar gun and distances seem about what Simon got at 50 (mine look about 230ish Pixel, 325 Pro Boss) IF I throw ok. But the big drivers I have to throw high to low and into the ground (feels like) to get a good low under 10' flight instead of one that goes up 20' and stalls left, and that can't be right. Slow flippy discs I kind of feel like I have to stop my arm early and pop my wrist to get them enough spin (lower speed as well) to keep from turning over. (Then I complain that no discs besides actual Frisbees are really flippy...)

Then besides that, I can leave the disc behind at my chest and also short 100-150 shots in real life could go anywhere. Which has me thinking I'm doing *something* wrong and getting this "defined release point" which might not be "snap" yet would help a bunch of stuff.

I shouldn't say "no" progress since there was a point where 175 with an Archangel was a smash.

Anyway I think the guy saw I let go of the disc and was trying to show me the disc would pop out when the elbow hits the end of its range and my arm stops suddenly? Seems like an injury waiting to happen.

tl;dr: probably strongarming 325' @50ish mph, low power backhands particularly inaccurate.

 

[Nick Carroll]

I think I'm right at 50 now with max effort. I want to say 47 last time I threw into a net with a radar gun and distances seem about what Simon got at 50...

tl;dr: probably strongarming 325' @50ish mph, low power backhands particularly inaccurate.

I think 6-7 speed fairways might be the best speed disc for you. Most of my throws are in that range, due to using too much arm, and it's somewhat dampening the kinetic chain, but slower fairways are the best combo of distance and control for me. I will sometimes bring out a 9 speed disc when I am throwing a lower line and I need a little more ground play. High chance you know all this, but I figure it's worth a shot to share my experiences here.

 

[zontar]

6 speeds rock IMHO

 

[Kennets]

My daughter bought me some cheap discs from a supermarket for father's day. The plastic actually felt good, so we went to a field to throw them for some.

When we got there, I kinda half assed threw the putter and it went close to 300 feets. This isn't a brag, because I usually struggle to get that distance.

I do believe that we try to much, instead of just letting our body do its natural thing. Like throwing a heavy object.

If you're stuck under 300' I would bring a hammer to the field and throw that thing out there. Film a normal throw and a hammer throw, and you'll see a huge difference.

Imma post these two pictures here of my daughter throwing (did it too in my form thread) and even though her form isn't top tier, this was her first time throwing a disc in a field and look how she's actually having decent posture and swing "thought".she's small for her age (6), but still got to 100 feets ish

 

[Kennets]

Point being: stop trying lol.

I've lost SO much distance trying to micromanaging stuff instead of looking at the bigger picture.

Bracing, having a decent posture and swing plane along with a decent brace should get the disc out there..

If I only could manage one of those things lol

 

[TiltedFlipCurves]

It doesn't work that way. Not trying = 100 feet