[Vs.] DD2 vs the Havoc

[Jahilbert]

So, I'm not afraid to admit I buy flashy new plastic like it is going out of style. I own 5 Teebirds but lately I've gone crazy with Speed 13 drivers because, well, I want to....new discs are fun discs.

So, what are people's impressions of the Discmania DD2 Frenzy vs the Lat 64 Havoc?

The DD2 is thin and super fast. It seems faster than my Nuke and a Katana. I find the little groove comfortable on my thumb. The Havoc has a similar groove on the dome but feels much meatier in my hand. I threw the DD2 further than the Havoc but it has been windy in San Jose so I don't want to make a judgement yet.

Any thoughts on these two discs?

 

[EL-KABONG]

here lemme help:

one is more overstable than xcaliber and the other is not overstable at all

 

[Quattra]

here lemme help:

one is more overstable than xcaliber and the other is not overstable at all

DD2 =/= PD2

 

[jubuttib]

Yeppers, the PD2 is another beast entirely.

The DD2 basically sits right between the Katana and the Boss. Easier to throw than the Boss, more controllable and reliable than the Katana. My current max D driver, I have one P and one Echo in my bag at all times. The echos are more stable/overstable, especially the flat minty greens can handle headwinds quite nicely. The P-lines are for calm weather long bombs and do their job excellently, especially as they beat in they're one of the longest discs out there. I'm not going to say they're longer than everything, because that depends on the thrower, but they're very very good max D discs if you don't mind the shallow profile. If that bothers you stick with a Nuke.

I haven't really heard much positive things about the Havoc, it's usually described as really touchy and with a weird late hook. Even the people who like them usually think of using them on anhyzer lines more than anything. Can't say anything certain since I haven't tested them myself.

Oh, and the P-PD2 is a really fun disc to throw. For such an overstable disc it really is easy to get a long straight flight out of it before the fade. I'm really looking forward to seeing how it'll beat in, seems like it'll be a great disc for huge bombs.

 

[jrawk]

I haven't really heard much positive things about the Havoc, it's usually described as really touchy and with a weird late hook. Even the people who like them usually think of using them on anhyzer lines more than anything. Can't say anything certain since I haven't tested them myself.

Don't want to call you out, but i'm calling you out! lol

Says who!?

Maybe you got the Havoc confused with the Halo or Flow? Havocs have only been on the market for a handful of weeks. There is no weird late hook at all. Smooth curves and low, flat lines are what it produces when thrown semi-correctly (read: easy to achieve).

 

[Jahilbert]

My DD2 hasn't flown overstable at all, that's I guess why I'm confused. (The Marshall Street Guys evaluate it as less overstable than the Xcal) I have gotten some good distance out of it right away so I like that!

My Havoc has been a tad touchy with the nose like a katana but I haven't experienced a hook. I'm really trying to figure that disc out.

I will be throwing out on the football field on my lunch break from teaching to do further "research"......love my job.

 

[jubuttib]

Excerpts from the Havoc thread at DGR:
"it was flippy at high speeds, and extremely overstable at low speeds"
"With too little hyzer they would flip and not come out of it. I could power them down a bit to reduce the flip, but then they just faded hard."
"theyz pretty damn flippy, even the heavys. if i throw them, i gotta do it at like 50% to get them to go straight or hold a line."
"The Havoc is like a worse Flow. It (the Flow) is A LOT more controllable than this."

Like I said, I haven't tried them myself, so I can't say anything certain, but the two most common things I've heard are "flippy at high speed" and "overstable at low speed".

I have actually thrown the Flow around somewhat, a really good disc that isn't really touchy nor has a sudden harsh fade like some Lat discs. Really like that one, but I'm a Discmania guy so there.

 

[jubuttib]

My DD2 hasn't flown overstable at all, that's I guess why I'm confused. (The Marshall Street Guys evaluate it as less overstable than the Xcal) I have gotten some good distance out of it right away so I like that!

My Havoc has been a tad touchy with the nose like a katana but I haven't experienced a hook. I'm really trying to figure that disc out.

I will be throwing out on the football field on my lunch break from teaching to do further "research"......love my job.

It shouldn't be overstable (at least not like the XCal anyway, that's the PD2), especially if you have the power to throw speed 13 discs.

 

[jrawk]

Excerpts from the Havoc thread at DGR:
"it was flippy at high speeds, and extremely overstable at low speeds"
"With too little hyzer they would flip and not come out of it. I could power them down a bit to reduce the flip, but then they just faded hard."
"theyz pretty damn flippy, even the heavys. if i throw them, i gotta do it at like 50% to get them to go straight or hold a line."
"The Havoc is like a worse Flow. It (the Flow) is A LOT more controllable than this."

Like I said, I haven't tried them myself, so I can't say anything certain, but the two most common things I've heard are "flippy at high speed" and "overstable at low speed".

I have actually thrown the Flow around somewhat, a really good disc that isn't really touchy nor has a sudden harsh fade like some Lat discs. Really like that one, but I'm a Discmania guy so there.

Any distance driver is overstable at low speed, no? I don't have an account on dgr but i read through the thread. There isn't much substance other than "it overlaps with a flow and we like flows better". Which is fine and dandy.

 

[yawpstang64]

Man, I hate every speed 13 disc thats overstable at low speeds

 

[jubuttib]

Yes, every fast distance driver is overstable at low speeds, like basically every disc is if you let it slow down enough. Usually people don't even bother to mention it, so I thought it'd be pretty severe. Guess I just read too much into it.

 

[EL-KABONG]

DD2 =/= PD2

oops...sorrry fellers
I knew the discmania alphabet soup was gonna get me sooner or later...

 

[Apoth]

Excerpts from the Havoc thread at DGR:
"it was flippy at high speeds, and extremely overstable at low speeds"
"With too little hyzer they would flip and not come out of it. I could power them down a bit to reduce the flip, but then they just faded hard."
"theyz pretty damn flippy, even the heavys. if i throw them, i gotta do it at like 50% to get them to go straight or hold a line."
"The Havoc is like a worse Flow. It (the Flow) is A LOT more controllable than this."

This sums up my thoughts on the Havoc. I REALLY want to like the disc, but it just doesn't have a place for me. That's not to say it wouldn't for some, it just doesn't fill a niche that another disc doesn't do better.

I took it out in a field and spent a lot of time comparing it to the flow and my destroyers (which are my main drivers). It has a surprising amount of highspeed turn...more than the Flow. I was throwing with about a 10 mph wind and even with a straight tailwind, I had to give it more hyzer than my flow and it was harder to control. Sometimes it'd flip over and burn, other times it'd flip flat and sail. As others have said, it does have a fair amount of low speed fade as well. My flow will pretty much drop flat with almost no fade when thrown with a tailwind, the havoc always hooked out.

I have a DD2 as well that I don't throw because it just turns too much. I found that the havoc turned less when I threw them side by side but that's not saying much. I did have better distance potential with the havoc, though.

At the end of the day, the havoc will not be bad if you have a slightly less powerful arm or you want a decently understable disc with a strong hooking finish...akin to a faster Valk.

 

[Handsome Rob]

Man, I hate every speed 13 disc thats overstable at low speeds

You should take up bowling then.

 

[jrawk]

I took it out in a field and spent a lot of time comparing it to the flow and my destroyers (which are my main drivers). It has a surprising amount of highspeed turn...more than the Flow. I was throwing with about a 10 mph wind and even with a straight tailwind, I had to give it more hyzer than my flow and it was harder to control. Sometimes it'd flip over and burn, other times it'd flip flat and sail.

Got out with the havocs again today and did what Apoth did:

Havocs vs Flows vs Pro Destroyers vs Halos

Same low speed fade as Halo
More high speed turn than Flow.
Same distance as Pro Destroyers, but not as straight a line.

I'm having more efficient results with the Havoc than the Flow. I might be the oddball here, but i have a real hard time keeping the flow low and flat, they airbounce way too much for me. Havocs, on the other hand, i can keep on a low 10ft line and flex it out.

167ish Pro Destroyers are my go-to straight-as-an-arrow power driver.
Opto halos are my overstable distance driver.

There is considerable overlap with the Flow. And I can get nearly the same distance with Rivers.

So my experience with both Havoc and Flow is the reverse of Apoths. It's all fine and dandy. Different strokes for different folks.

If you have tried the flow, and found it a little wonky, the Havoc might be a better fit.