Discs of the 00's

[Working Stiff]

So innovation aside,

just gimme a sentence fragment...

blah bleh blah blah blah, the Valkyrie, incorporating the stabilized-understable-glidey design of the Leopard, made blah bleh blah blah bleh blah blah blah blah.

Your cynical attitude is refreshing.

I think we want to see innovation. We would like to believe that the (insert high speed driver of choice) is a revelation from the disc golf Gods and a truly revolutionary disc because it sounds a lot better that "this years recycled idea." I just don't see it. It's the same basic bag of tricks used over and over in different combinations. Sometimes it's the Valk and we love it and call it innovative. Sometimes it's the Groove and you see it for the wild guess that it is.

I think the next decade might be more innovative since the same old trick has been cut off by the rules. Disc makers are going to have to get more creative to convince us that the next driver is going to be longer than the last.

Anyway, Candy Plastic to me has to be ahead of any specific disc mold in terms of innovation forward in the '00's.

 

[tumpsi]

you guys managed to talk about the best discs of the 00's for almost 2 pages without mentioning the teebird.

 

[rehder]

thats because the teebird was approved in 99 and hence technically not eligible


I agree with the assesment that there hasnt been any disc revolution, but I dont expect to see one either. Most products are evolutions of something that was done before. That said, I think the Wraith is an important disc to list, since I think the impact it had was really big. (Impact seen here several factors bunched up in one. marketpenetration, usability for good players, and so on)

 

[Marmoset]

Here is the list of candidates.
MRV
Scout
Demon
XS
#2 Putter
Xpress
Xtreme
Stinger
Gator
XTRA
Firebird
#2 Upshot
#4 Driver
Valkyrie
Dragon
Ace
CE Leopard
CE Eagle
CE Valkyrie
CE Aviar
CE TeeBird
CE FireBird
Spider
Reaper
Archangel
Optimizer
#2 Helix
Wizard
CE Spider
Beast
Talon
Wasp
Maximizer
Putt'r
QJLS
QMS
Predator
Storm
Wildcat
CE Aero
Speed Demon
Viking
Riptide
Squall
Crush
Breeze
Buzz
Touchline Bank/Long Range Driver
Touchline True/Mid Range Approach
Touchline Putter/Putter
Touchline Over
Chief
Touchline Under
Monster
Challenger
Epic Driver
Arrow - Approach & Putter
Starfire
ORC
Flick
Glide
Element
Sidewinder
Element X
Spirit
Flash
Hydra
Tsunami
Illusion
Fusion Juju
Bulldog
Supreme Juju
Hero Disc Type 235
Drone
Quarter K
Tracker
Sharpshooter #1
Sharpshooter #2
Sharpshooter #3
Wraith
Roadrunner
Hybrid
Spectra
Banger-GT
Slipstream-GT
Venom
Orion LS
Supreme Velocity
Fusion Velocity
Avenger
Coyote
Mercury Putter
Tee-Rex
Goblin
Scream
Odyssey Midrange
Nighthawk
Whitler
Odyssey Driver
Scream DT
Odyssey Putter
Surge
Scream DT Max
Scream DT Ultra
Odyssey Approach & Putter
Mirus
Power Oracle (Oracle)
Power Legacy (Legacy)
Low Speed Driver
Skeeter
Pulse
Orion LF
Odyssey True Line Putter
Scream II
Odyssey Power Driver
Speed Demon DT
Rapter
The Tui
Te Moko
New Zealand 175g Ultimate Disc
Inferno
Scream DT Ultra 2
Sinus AP
Max
Torque
Meteor
Scorcher
10 Meter Brick
Rogue
Blurr
MD1
Ragning Inferno
Raging Inferno DT
Sinus SP
Crossfire
10 Meter Crossfire
Backbone
Wildfire
Medius
Primitus
Pluto Driver
Saturn Mid Range
Vision
Kite
P1
P2
CD
Rage
Warlock
Teebird L (TL)
Firebird L (FL)
Spike
Diablo DT
Mid Range Approach
Turnover Driver
100 Meter Lazer
T-Bone
Gremlin
Rock-It
Radius
Polar Bear
Grizzly
Moose
Caribou
CRO
Starfire L (SL)
Rippa
Arcturus
Destroyer
Pluto Platter
Swift Fox
Superturn Driver
Titanic
Sonic
Blast DT
Double D
Impact
Shockwave
Prodigy
Reef (Atlantis)
Timberwolf
Beaver
Wolverine
Woodchuck
Gamedisc
Magic
Power Juju
Supreme Prodigy
Power Prodigy
Power Velocity
Supreme Celerity
Power Celerity
Core
Pig
Zone
Pulsar
Assassin
Monarch
Power Genesis
PD - Power Driver
Quarter K II
Crosshair
Transcend
S Driver
Boss
DD - Distance Driver
Helios
Riot
Striker
XXX
Trident
Nebula
Groove
Blowfly II
Tsunami D-Line
Avenger-SS
Surge-SS
Buzz-SS
Buzzz-GT
Force
XCaliber
V.P.
Voodoo
Aftershock D-Line
Sparkle Reef
Pure
Savage
Apache (retooled)
Ringer
Stalker
Blitz
Power Precision
Ching Ultimate
Focus
Ion
Mako
Katana
Guardian
Nuke
Ridge
Northman
Ching Big Heavy
Halo
Summit
Dart
Aftershock
Sparkle Aftershock
Maxline -- 1

 

[Working Stiff]

After sleeping on it, I guess I should have started out by saying I'm not at all qualified to judge innovation. Do you remember the ad for the Inferno that was on the GDS homepage for two years? It talked about how revolutionary that disc was because the flight plate was such and such thick with such and such dome so it would lift and glide yada yada yada...basically it said stuff I would never notice made the Inferno an "innovative" disc that would fly farther for low power players. At the time I was on the bandwagon. The first two runs of Infernos were easily the longest discs for me at that time. Everything is relative; I wasn't getting the kind of D everyone else seemed to be getting but still I gained 20 or so feet on my drives. Every once and a while I got crazy distance for me out of those things. So in late '06-early '07 I totally bought into the idea that the Inferno was "innovative."

Of course that was about the same time that I started reading this page and trying to fix my horrible form. The harsh reality of the Inferno was that it was a touchy little bitch so that extra distance came at a cost. Get the nose up and it went nowhere. Don't get enough snap and the LSS will take the flip out of the hyzer flip. Throw it into a headwind and wish you hadn't. In the field it was great, on the course it got me into a lot of trouble. In the end there were only certain types of holes I would pull it out on. The disc was ruined by Quest's SRP plastic, so I stopped using it. I've kept working on my form and today I regularly get my ESP Cyclones out past where I was throwing Infernos back then. So that "Innovative" distance gain from disc design was in my hands all along, I just needed to do the work to get it. The ESP Cyclone is 1993 innovation, and it's much more accurate and consistent than the touchy-bitchy high speed drivers that were considered state of the art innovation.

So I could be selling the whole bunch of the high speed driver short when it comes to innovation. Maybe the Quarter K and the Inferno were every bit as "innovative" as they claimed to be and I just don't see it. If you had a bunch of engineers look at the designs we might be surprised at which discs they were impressed with. All I can go by is what I saw on the course. From that there certainly was a cumulative gain in distances that the average Joe was getting from his discs. I just never noticed one disc that was the key to the whole thing, that one disc that changed the whole way drivers were made. Drivers to me in 2010 look pretty much the same as drivers in 1999 with bigger wings, and those wings just got bigger .1 cm at a time until 2008.

 

[Marmoset]

I vote for the Roadrunner/Coyote/Dart/Mako convex rim design.
Once this design is properly tweaked it appears to be a good way of making a disc:
1- have a good amount HS stability
2- lose a significant amount of LS stability
3- still have good glide
4- retain good rim structure so the disc is more durable in regards to impacts

These seem to be some of the most desirable characteristics that people shop for in a disc and this design addresses them fairly competently.

 

[VictorB]

I'd say that my list of the 3 best discs of the '00 would be a putter, mid and driver:

Wizard - Gateway's cash cow, and probably the sole reason that company still has the market share that they do currently. Took a good idea and made it better, one of the best multi purpose putter molds in existence today.

Buzzz - The wasp wasn't cutting it as a Roc competitor (even though its widely believed that discraft directly copied the roc purposely), and some genius at DC had the idea to chop the bead off the wasp. A faster, slightly less stable version of the roc was born, and is just as popular today as the roc.

Wraith - The disc that redefined high speed drivers. Innova showed with the Wraith that a great wide rim driver mold could be used in all plastic levels (I'm looking at you, Mr. Orc). Set the bar as we know it today for high speed drivers, and a large majority of comparisons come back to the Wraith for new products put out in this class of disc.

That's just my opinion though, which probably is negated just because I started playing in the second half of 2005.

 

[DaRoc]

Here is my opinion on on this great topic and congrats on getting a chance to write about it.

The 3 best disc of the last 10 years.
Wizard- It started as a cult putter froma small time company and changed the putter market for the better. Most people have throw wizards and still do. Now this company is a player 10 years later in the disc golf market. I dont throw wizards by the way.
Buzz- Discraft nailed this one big time. Everyone has thrown it and is now one of the best mids all-tiime. No need to go on. I dont throw a buzz either.
Wraith- No other driver has took the market by storm like this driver in the last 10years and it is still going strong with all the new warp speed drivers. It made getting a lot of extra golf D with such great control. Still the best max D driver for control in my eyes.

Most innovated disc.
Epic- I cant think of any other disc that is more innovated than that. What a design and flight characteristics it has. It is a very cool disc that i do not throw but enjoy watching the people who can throw them properly.

Biggest bust disc.
Most of the Quest line-up. Just pick something. A lot of plastic can go here. The problem with Quest is they try and do a lot of gimmic disc. how about the Bulldog. Who throws these other than Barry S.?

 

[VictorB]

Is there an echo in here? :lol:

I think we have a couple of strong contenders already.

 

[Frank Delicious]

Is there an echo in here? :lol:

I think we have a couple of strong contenders already.

Ya'll are copping my thoughts yo!

 

[VictorB]

Is there an echo in here? :lol:

I think we have a couple of strong contenders already.

Ya'll are copping my thoughts yo!

hard to argue with sound logic!

 

[Frank Delicious]

It's true.

 

[DaRoc]

It's true.

It is the message i got from the eyes of your avatar frank :shock:

 

[ForeverBlue232]

Can anyone on this board speak to 1st hand experience to throwing a Proto Quarter K in 2004? MDR, did you ever throw one? From what I understand, the bullet shaped wing was amazing to see fly.

I think it's important to look at the disc as a whole. The quarter K was a revolutionary disc, but's its lack of durability made it a liability rather than a benefit in most bags. The QK might have came out too early or in the wrong blend... maybe too revolutionary for its own good.

What do you think of the QK II then? Other than that some of you guys that throw faster would probably find it too understable, it has a "bullet rim" and is molded in a great plastic that appears to be quite durable for me. For my throwing, it is a great disc with amazing glide. From its rim size, you could say it's a speed 11 disc. But I think it goes just about as far as any of my 13's. It has made me want to get a regular QK to see how that is. Why doesn't Discwing just make a new run of QK's in the Shockline plastic of the QK II? I would like to see more discs made with the same kind of rim/wing. I think that design is rather innovative, though it seems no one else is trying to copy it yet.

 

[tumpsi]

thats because the teebird was approved in 99 and hence technically not eligible

I thought it was 2001

 

[ChrisWoj]

Can anyone on this board speak to 1st hand experience to throwing a Proto Quarter K in 2004? MDR, did you ever throw one? From what I understand, the bullet shaped wing was amazing to see fly.

I think it's important to look at the disc as a whole. The quarter K was a revolutionary disc, but's its lack of durability made it a liability rather than a benefit in most bags. The QK might have came out too early or in the wrong blend... maybe too revolutionary for its own good.

What do you think of the QK II then? Other than that some of you guys that throw faster would probably find it too understable, it has a "bullet rim" and is molded in a great plastic that appears to be quite durable for me. For my throwing, it is a great disc with amazing glide. From its rim size, you could say it's a speed 11 disc. But I think it goes just about as far as any of my 13's. It has made me want to get a regular QK to see how that is. Why doesn't Discwing just make a new run of QK's in the Shockline plastic of the QK II? I would like to see more discs made with the same kind of rim/wing. I think that design is rather innovative, though it seems no one else is trying to copy it yet.

A lot of people have avoided the QKII because of the way the QK disappointed. I'd LOVE to try one sometime but right now I don't have the spare money to throw into plastic just to test it out unfortunately.

 

[Timko]

Dgdave and discpeed need to respond to this. I'd also be interested in what MDR has to say. Everything about my opinion is formed as an am, so some pros weighing in would be interesting.

 

[Scoot_er]

Didn't read the whole thread to see if it was mentioned but the Slipstream GT was the biggest bust for sure with the Buzzz GT not far behind.

Best IMO

Storm- even though is is OOP it is unlike any other Mid.

Buzzz

Innovative- The EDGE (Speed Demon) which was the 1st FAST disc on the market in like 02'. The original design is SUPER sharp and probably as fast as anything currently out although it was also very overstable.

 

[Timko]

Both myself and Stiff listed the Edge. While the Wizard had a bigger impact on the sales for Gateway, the Edge probably had a more lasting effect on the industry as a whole.

 

[jsun3thousand]

Didn't read the whole thread to see if it was mentioned but the Slipstream GT was the biggest bust for sure with the Buzzz GT not far behind.

Best IMO

Storm- even though is is OOP it is unlike any other Mid.

Buzzz

Innovative-

which was the 1st FAST disc on the market in like 02'. The original design is SUPER sharp and probably as fast as anything currently out although it was also very overstable.

fixed