- Joined
- Dec 19, 2009
- Messages
- 6,878
Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
By "cash" I mean the commonly accepted definition of the word "cash." In your first post you said those were the numbers someone needs to get to to cash. Yes, if you change entirely what you said - you can be exactly right.Sheep said:If you mean cash by get the "participation trophy" money, then yes, you don't need to try that hard.
Okay, so you need to hit putts halfway out into C2 at 60-70% - thats a lot closer to correct than what you said. Yes, I agree with this.Your important circle 2 putts are 10-15 meters. Those are the ones you gotta be hitting 60-70%.
Thank you for sharing this. Theres barely any discernible distance between those C1X putts. If you're just using averages - all including them is going to do is mask the actual difference in skill between the putters, unless you do some kind of transformation to take into account the ease of the closest putts.This is from a couple of years ago when Chris Dickerson (orange) was the top putter. Black is the average of the top 100 putters.
View attachment 330316
This is such a perplexing thread. Udisc stats are heavily referenced by tons of people discussing pro results.Those u-disc numbers are not that accurate.
Close, but not accurate.
This is maybe an explanation for your claim about C2, but this is also an invention of a new brand of C1x vs C1 applied to C2. If you want to use your own definitions of things most of us define differently, cool but say that first maybeAnd if we wanna split hairs. 20 meters out circle 2 edge, isn't really "putting range" anymore. It's closer to "toss with hope"
Nice, this is pretty much in line with what I expected to see too. There is no indication that even early C2 distance putts are hit at a 60-70% rate.This is from a couple of years ago when Chris Dickerson (orange) was the top putter. Black is the average of the top 100 putters.
View attachment 330316
I actually agree with his point on this, to an extent. They were REALLY bad, now thanks to the flags marking bullseye and C1 and C2 it has improved. They're heavily referenced because they're the best we've got - but people are seriously horrible at judging distances. I remember in 2018 I played a round at GBO with Austin Hannum, and our scorekeeper at the time was asking us what to mark our shots. There were no flags at bullseye and C2, just the C1 circle.This is such a perplexing thread. Udisc stats are heavily referenced by tons of people discussing pro results.
Fair enough, and I definitely don't think the stats are perfect. I do maintain that they are good enough to confidently say that successful pro golfers are not hitting 60-70% C2 putts That's really the only point I have had this entire thread.I actually agree with his point on this, to an extent. They were REALLY bad, now thanks to the flags marking bullseye and C1 and C2 it has improved. They're heavily referenced because they're the best we've got - but people are seriously horrible at judging distances. I remember in 2018 I played a round at GBO with Austin Hannum, and our scorekeeper at the time was asking us what to mark our shots. There were no flags at bullseye and C2, just the C1 circle.
Hannum repeatedly told them that 10-15 foot putts were in the bullseye, until I pointed out to him late in the round that he was telling them that C1X putts were bullseye. At the time I was very confident in my ability to eyeball and pace putts because I kept, and had kept for a year at the time, flags at 1m intervals to 20m from both of my baskets. I saw a visual reminding me what 1m, 3m, 5... 10.. etc look like every time I let my dogs outside, and experienced it every time I practiced putting.
A few days ago I played a league, no flags out, some local dude who loves lots of DG, just the sort of person that'd wind up scorekeeping at a big tournament, asked if he was C2 on a 45-48' putt... he and another guy got into a short discussion over whether it was circles edge or 40' and I'm just standing by the putt, after he took it, thinking "wut?"
True. But it does inspire further conversation about the quality of the statistics we are using. I agree with your point, but I also quibble with the methodology of what we're doing. Which does bring to mind a question for Steve...Fair enough, and I definitely don't think the stats are perfect. I do maintain that they are good enough to confidently say that successful pro golfers are not hitting 60-70% C2 putts That's really the only point I have had this entire thread.
I cannot see how anyone who watches a lot of pro disc golf would disagree with this. Anyone that actually watches this sport knows there is a huge drop-off in putts made at this range.
Was this taken during some specific event(s) where specific putt distances were measured? Because, as far as I've been able to tell, every DGPT event has used the UDisc system that lists every putt-range by its mid-point. Not that I intend to disparage the quality of the infographic or the utility of what we can glean from it. But I'm assuming this is just smoothed from data that gave us 5 16 27 38 49 or 60 ft?This is from a couple of years ago when Chris Dickerson (orange) was the top putter. Black is the average of the top 100 putters.
View attachment 330316
I agree that it is a big strain on the volunteer base but imo Udisc doesn't need to send people. The players should be doing it. They are the ones who stand to benefit from making dg look like a "real" sport.U-disc stats and all that, in my opinion, needs to go the fk away from tournaments. If u-disc wants stats, they need to send their own people. I have almost no volunteers for spotting and assisting on the course because everyone is ate up by u-disc stat keepers.
I agree that it is a big strain on the volunteer base but imo Udisc doesn't need to send people. The players should be doing it. They are the ones who stand to benefit from making dg look like a "real" sport.
Bottom line is that the desire for those volunteers is a known factor when you sign up to run these events.
It would be quite typical for a really good player to be both 90% within C1 and 40% at exactly 10 meters. The trick is to land closer than 10 meters a lot of the time.
This is the real discussion if one is earnest about the desire to go pro. There is no way to practice winning tournaments, other than by winning tournaments. Distance in a field is literally meaningless if it doesn't correlate to results when it counts.OP's original question included two different phrases, "...be able to play pro in a few years..." and, "...make the cut on the DGPT." He stated he's 16 and asserted he has 450' golf lines.
I've gotten to tag along with one of the world's best 14-year-olds when he played some practice rounds with my son. This player took 2nd at MJ-15 worlds two years ago, falling to the champion in a tie breaker, only having turned 14 years old that year, and this past summer he won the USADGC at Toboggan as well. He's currently 995 rated and was 998 at his peak last year. He can rip drives, putt, and do it all, from the three or four casual rounds I've seen him play in person.
He's going to need to get about 2 strokes better before he can reliably finish in the middle of the pack on tour. I imagine those 2 strokes, going from 1000 to 1020 rated, are the hardest to get in the sport.
The big discussion about putting prowess in DGPT players was entertaining, but all OP needs to do is look at Steve West's graph there. Chris Dickerson a couple of years ago was making almost half of his 30-footers in the stress of real competition, with weather factored in, not having a tarp to stop his missed putts, you name it. The average of the top 100 putters in the world from that distance was about 5% worse. Just 1 extra missed putt in 20 attempts, or so. Interestingly, that's the biggest spread between him and his competition on the whole graph, 30-footers.
I'd think "making the cut on the DGPT" would be a top 100 player, so there you go OP. Just be 1 out of 20 worse than the best putter in the world from 30 feet...while playing under the stress of a real DGPT event during a grueling tour season, of course!
Climo used to putt 500 reps a day for practice...
I'm not a competitive disc golfer, but I have been competitive in my life at other sports. There is no substitute for the stresses of performing when it matters. Even in league play, my mentality is a hurdle sometimes!
Some of you are too young to remember Willie Mosconi, but years ago he did the college lecture/demonstration circuit and I was lucky enough to see him. He passed in 1993, so the rest of you missed your chance. He was a pool player, ran 526 consecutive balls once playing straight pool.
Anyway, he said he didn't practice, he just competed. He already knew how to play. He had only so much concentration, and he needed to save it for when it counted. That was an interesting viewpoint.