Final Round Radio - American Disc Golf Tour

[DavidSauls]

Are there any quarters where people are genuinely excited about this "tour"? Other than those that saw or heard the initial announcement, but really don't know the Salient history or aren't following these threads on social media? Is there anyone fawning over this, outside of Salient? Seems to me everyone is taking a wait-and-see attitude, with no one wanting to be the first to jump in to the fire. I don't remember anything more nebulous than this proposal.

Yes. I've seen some Facebook posts from people who are excited by the letters ESPN. I'm sure there are others.

It's a little like the guy who stages and elaborate marriage proposal---jumbotron at the stadium, that sort of thing---and she turns him down. I'm sure he only imagined a celebration. But he should have been sure she was going to say Yes, before he went public.

 

[jeffmonty]

It's a little like the guy who stages and elaborate marriage proposal---jumbotron at the stadium, that sort of thing---and she turns him down. I'm sure he only imagined a celebration. But he should have been sure she was going to say Yes, before he went public.

Great analogy!

 

[Aim For The Chains]

The more ADGT gets explained the more i hate it.

Honestly they should be called out for trying to scam peeps bc thats all it is at this point. DG doesnt need these clowns st all. What a joke of an interview. Worse than a politician!

If you are facebook report the page as a scam. Same with rest of their social media. Salient cant even back the damn event lol. Major sponsor who cant even sell dg products anymore? Innova/dc/lat/mvp etc can sell out of a run of 1ks discs without issue. Salient wut?

Same people trying to do big things with a series of tournaments... bahahaha

 

[AndyJB]

Could be. Have you never had an idea that seemed so great to you that you tore off in pursuit of it, without taking the precaution of running it by cooler, perhaps wiser heads? I see ideas like this in these forums all the time. But, instead of floating the idea and getting some input, they ran with it. Not just an ESPN-event, but a whole new tour and organization.

Yeah. I joined the military right after 9/11. Seems to be working out okay for me so far.

I know that's not what you were looking for; if course I'm being facetious.

The point is that Salient Discs, Chris Kilgus and Steve Boucher are known scam artists. It's known on here, on Facebook, on Reddit and out on the courses. I still throw a Lockjaw and when people ask what it is tbey almost always come back with something negative to say about Salient. Its not some internet forum secret. Everyone knows about these guys.

Now,I do think they have a passion for disc golf. And I think they do want to take the game to the "next level." But you dont do it be being short-sighted. I understand the need for control, I really do, but in this case maybe it would have been better to be a silent partner and let something with some resl experience run the damn thing.

Because guess what? Disc golf is still a small community. Its growing by leaps and bounds in the casual market, but the casual market aren't going to be tuning in on a nice weekend to watch a tournament with players they've never heard of on a random golf course. The target market for live tournament coverage is dedicated disc golfers...and that market hates Salient and all they stand for.

Dodging questions and blaming the disc gold community (its like Boucher already knows it's going to fail) isnt going to set the ship right.

 

[DavidSauls]

.

Now,I do think they have a passion for disc golf. And I think they do want to take the game to the "next level." But you dont do it be being short-sighted. I understand the need for control, I really do, but in this case maybe it would have been better to be a silent partner and let something with some resl experience run the damn thing.

I'm more of this bent.

I don't have a problem with Salient, or any of the guys involved. I fully understand people who do.

From my perspective, they made the deal with ESPN---whatever it is---and then went off in the wrong direction. I don't think it's a scam. I just think they've gone about it completely wrong. Bad plan, badly executed, and badly handled PR when criticism arose. It's 6 months away. I'd like to think they'd view the reaction, scrap the plan and start over with a better one, but somehow I have my doubts.

It's funny, but I've seen this all before, in bits & pieces. The guy who sold a disc-golf-on-a-ball-golf-course near here, and proclaimed at its opening that he'd hold a tournament bigger than the USDGC. The guy in Arkansas who wanted to run a big event with qualifiers around the country, for which people would need to buy memberships, and when I asked why they would, kept saying, "It'll be a great event." A winner-take-all event that drew 8 players. An A-tier that drew about 15. People who were sure they had a great idea, but if they'd asked for opinions first, and listened to them, could have saved themselves a world of trouble.

 

[Moose33]

The Salient crew has always been pretty good to me and I have a few of their discs that I throw. But their social media presence and customer service as a body of work is not near par.

I feel like in many areas they have overhyped and underserved and it's bit them hard.

This is a small tight knit community and if your going to succeede you need to play the audience. You can't succeed with this level of word of mouth being negative when in this sport word of mouth is the most prominent and meaningful advertising.

This project seemed like a great idea I'm sure, and yes it's a great opportunity, but the whole thing needed to be thought out better.

Also, they need to know that a lot of the people they are selling this event to(at significant expense if the costs are correct for the event/membership) are kind of ticked at them.

I have no issues with the parties involved, but this was a misstep.

 

[Consult20]

Yeah I pretty much agree with the sentiment here, this is not looking very promising at this point. I mean he will not provide transparency in areas where it's critical to do so to have any chance of success. What kind of tournament hides the list of players who have paid for entry? That's just crazy! And then to say he didn't know what was going on with FitBit -- come on, those FRR guys let him off the hook on that one. And basically saying they aren't going to disclose other sponsors at this point -- why not? Because there aren't any? Most likely. And to make this event happen is going to take a lot of $, and so far the numbers aren't adding up.

Trying to remain neutral is not easy, especially since this is sounding more and more like a penny stock scheme -- I'm kind of surprised they haven't tried to sell stock in this venture.

Well enough of all that, I picked up an awesome new 175g Opto Pure today, going to throw the hell out of it tomorrow!

 

[Aim For The Chains]

selling some kind of BS "fundraiser discs" which are worthless salient molds at a huge premium that even disc golf retailers cant move .. not a scam?

and that's just the tip of the iceberg. They cant even get good discs to sell as a fundraiser discs and the comments were "well its up to those companies to step up" .... um no that's not how it works in anything' couple of goons honestly just from the small stuff.

 

[AndyJB]

Forgot about the sponsor thing.
Yeah, no one is going to pay money to sponsor an event and NOT be mentioned.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Forgot about the sponsor thing.
Yeah, no one is going to pay money to sponsor an event and NOT be mentioned.

::crinkles paper contract::

BUT YOU DONT KNOW WHATS IN THERE ANDY!

I love how he talked about his contact info like it was a issue.. um well, don't you run a business? how do we get a hold of you? lol. Its 2015 hes a idiot if he thinks hes living in secret.

 

[DavidSauls]

selling some kind of BS "fundraiser discs" which are worthless salient molds at a huge premium that even disc golf retailers cant move .. not a scam?
.

Let's not go overboard. The point of selling fundraiser merchandise is to raise funds. Sure, it would work better if they were desirable discs, even better if they were rare and desirable. But I buy fundraisers for local and regional tournaments to support those events, not because I want those discs, especially at those prices.

More tenuous is selling, and requiring, memberships to an organization with no disclosed structure, for a tour with 1 set event. I wouldn't call that a scam, either, since the details are in plain sight. But if you buy the discs and receive them, you haven't been scammed; if you join a tour that doesn't happen, you might have been.

 

[mark996]

That's what I don't get. In the information world we live in and the speed of information, he acts like he shouldn't be judged on what he's been affiliated with in the past, well that's part of being a businessman (I use that term loosely). I'm still perplexed by people who think ESPN sought them out and worked a deal to get disc golf on TV. I do think PDGA and all of the YouTube guys pull more of an audience than this ESPN3 gig will.

 

[DavidSauls]

Having now listened to much of this, I thought, as I expected, that Steve did a good job. The FRR guys did a great job of asking questions. Steve gave their rationale for some things that haven't been put out before, most significantly a separate organization. Not enough to convince me that they didn't take the wrong path, but more than we had before.

 

[AndyJB]

That's and interesting point of view,David. Im almost the total opposite. I felt the interview did more harm than good, with his dodging and overall accusatory attittude.

I expected some solid answers from a cool headed guy who is used to fixing Kilgus' **** ups. We got a measured politician type response instead.

 

[DavidSauls]

If you assumed, for a moment, that this venture was a good idea and wasn't burdened with Salient baggage, you'd have to agree that there are some things they might not be ready to announce. Heck, for our C-tier, if you ask me 6 months in advance, or even 1 month in advance, for details, I'll come up short. We didn't announce whether we'd have food on site until a few days before the tournament.

He gave the rationale for creating an organization. He explained that they never tried to go through the PDGA; Kilgus had given the impression that the PDGA was too slow, not that they would be too slow. He promoted the quality of the property; I'm not a golfer but am in the area, and its reputation is as he claims. Moreover, he at least took the questions and mostly gave answers, which is a lot more than they've done in any other venue.

In business, sometimes complaints are an opportunity. We'd rather have someone complain to us, so we can explain our side, than simply go away mad. If we can address complaints publicly, in a reasonable way, and even admit when we're wrong, it can help with image-building. This is where deleting facebook posts and blocking posters is so counter-productive. He didn't quite admit that they'd done some things wrong---the lack of a formal announcement, perhaps---but at least he gave some answers.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Let's not go overboard. The point of selling fundraiser merchandise is to raise funds.

More tenuous is selling, and requiring, memberships to an organization with no disclosed structure, for a tour with 1 set event. I wouldn't call that a scam, either, since the details are in plain sight. But if you buy the discs and receive them, you haven't been scammed; if you join a tour that doesn't happen, you might have been.

Salient would never sell those discs otherwise.

Your 2nd part is the real issue. I was just being a dick but its true you have no idea those sales actually go back to the event. Wholesale i understand.

 

[DavidSauls]

Salient would never sell those discs otherwise.

Your 2nd part is the real issue. I was just being a dick but its true you have no idea those sales actually go back to the event. Wholesale i understand.

That's a good point. Though if the event happens---if it's produced for ESPN, and on the Cobblestone Park course---a lot of money is going into it, from somewhere.

 

[DavidSauls]

I was discussing this with someone last week, and my prediction was that (1) at some point, with low registration, the event will be cancelled and (2) they'll blame the disc golf community, not themselves, for the failure.

The FRR interview does lay the groundwork for that.

I'm not hoping for that outcome, nor betting huge sums on it, but if I had to bet something, that would be my guess.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Your odds seem pretty low on that bet but i think its guaranteed $!

 

[AndyJB]

It's pretty much a dick move to beat your chest and tell the disc golf community to "put their money where their mouth is" when it comes to hashtag growthesport, then imply the only way to do so is to support this upstart event.

They are trying to create an entirely new orginization, circumventing disc golf's governing body for 30 plus years, with tenuous details. It's not going to work and is bordering on cognitive dissonance.