Finder's fee

[smokfraglerock]

Finder's fee for a disc thrown in a pond, sure. Send the person who finds my disc a mailing label or prepaid envelope, sure. Five bucks for a DX Cobra available almost anywhere discs are sold, laugh uncontrollably into the phone until they hang up.

For what its worth, I have never had discs returned, so I would possibly pay an extra dollar for the return of a disc. For the novelty of the situation and to positively reinforce good behavior.

That brings the amount I would pay for the return of a current run baseline plastic disc up to two dollars.

 

[Puckstopper]

I am shocked how few people give a reward to folks who return their discs. I give one 100% of the time when I've gotten a call about a lost disc. I agree. I usually give the disc itself. After all, if I quit looking for it, I didn't expect it back and have probably replaced it already.
I've returned probably 20-ish discs over the years, and have gotten "rewards" only twice. I've never asked for anything in return for returning someone's lost disc.

I don't ask for or expect a reward. People who demand one, or even hint around at it are tools. Unfortunately, the world is full of them, and since I'm planning on giving them something anyway they don't really bother me. The people who do bother me are the ones who don't even say "thanks", or who act like they're doing me a favor by coming to the course I'm playing, or my place of work to pick up their disc. I have no problem shipping at your expense if you're out of town, but if you live 15 minutes away, you can come to me. I very much want to do the right thing, but dealing with some of the entitled people I've talked to attempting to return discs has left me very jaded.

Thing is it absolutely isn't "easy" to tell lost versus abandoned, for the simple fact that you don't know the circumstances involved in how that disc came to be out of its owners possession. Actually, it is. Circumstances are largely irrelevant (at least in Ohio). I showed your post to my father-in-law who is a lawyer at a large firm in Ohio. His explanation was that it largely depends on whether a conscious choice was made to stop searching. In the circumstances you've listed (i.e. you know where the approximate physical location of your property) once you stop searching, regardless of reason, you have abandoned your property.

If a disc is lost late in the day, and the owner runs out of daylight in his search for the disc and leaves the course without it, is it lost or abandoned? Abandoned. He chose to leave the course. Keep a flashlight in your bag, and you won't have this issue.

If a disc is lost during a tournament round in which, by rule, the player and his group has just 3 minutes to locate it or they must move on, is it lost or abandoned? Abandoned. He CHOSE to move on. If the disc meant that much to him he could have CHOSE to forfeit and stay and look.

If a disc is lost and the player is in a rush because he's got to get off the course to pick up his kid at school, is it lost or abandoned? Abandoned. He made the right choice, kid is more important that disc, but he still made a choice to abandon that disc.

What if in the meantime, while he's picking up his kid, someone else comes along, finds his disc, and throws it into the pond 5 holes away from where it was originally lost so any attempt to return to the course and search is fruitless? Is the disc resting in the pond lost or abandoned? Abandoned by the person who found the disc after it was abandoned the first time.

In an earlier post, you said "I just don't understand if someone deems the effort to find a disc is more than the value of the disc how they think they retain ownership." My counter to that is how do you know, just by finding the disc, how much effort went into finding the disc and what the circumstances were when that effort was made? You're basing your viewpoint on an assumption. An assumption that is more likely to be incorrect than correct most of the time. The amount of effort that went into the search is legally irrelevant.

I commend you for doing the right thing with inked discs. The problem really lies with the people who make your argument about "abandoned" discs as a rationalization for keeping or attempting to profit from any disc they find, inked or not. Without being able to prove intent, it's extremely difficult to make a convincing argument that one "abandoned" a disc versus simply losing it. Nope, it's very easy to make a legal argument. Your arguments are moral. For whatever it's worth I agree with them, but they won't hold up in court.

Now, the one hypothetical you forgot to throw out that would have made your argument much more sound is the disc that randomly falls out of your bag. If you realize later that you lost a disc you have not legally begun searching until you return to the location and look for it. This comes with caveats. If you realize you lost the disc while you're on the course and leave without looking it is abandoned. If you leave the course, realize you've lost a disc later, return to the course, and cannot find the disc you could press charges against someone you found with the disc at a later date/time. Of course you would be hard pressed to find a police officer to take the report, and even more hard pressed to find a DA willing to prosecute. Not only is the value of the item far too low for them to bother with, but it would be a case of your word against the finders re: your intentions.

Long story short the case would never make it to court, and would be difficult to win if it did.

 

[grotto]

I no longer ink my discs. I don't expect to get them back and should I decide I don't like it and want to sell it, inked discs sell at a discount.

I f I lose it, I abandon it. Oh well. I don't have to deal with finders fees, people prank calling me or going through all the hassle of mailing or meeting someone from a different area.

In short, I have no expectations so I get no disappointments or irritations. It's a used disc, at most it's worth $10, let it go. Too many other things to get irritated about.

The way I see it is, I've lost way more money in golf balls than I ever lost in discs.

 

[Puckstopper]

Bad analogy. Big difference between parking your car in a parking lot and abandoning a disc. Try again maybe? All the people with this little kid entitlement thinking they can draw on their discs, abandon them, then think someone else is the bad person for finding it is frankly disgusting. It makes me want to chuck any disc I find inked into the deepest water possible since people portray themselves as so ungrateful. I won't because I feel most people get it to an extent. Trying to condemn anyone that finds an abandoned disc is ignorant and selfish. The truth is it will always be a grey area unless people quit inking discs or put a reward for it even if small. People on BOTH sides of the argument can be bad people imo. The only current sensible option is logic since there's no definitive answer.

Hook,

I get your frustration, I really do. The vast majority of the people I've dealt with returning discs have been decent people and are either grateful to get their property back or simply don't want it back. However the people who expect you do to all the work, or are not grateful at all tend to be the ones you remember. Combining that with the holier than thou attitudes of Ru4por and others here makes it really hard to want to do the right thing sometimes. But at the end of the day it is the right thing. Someone here (big sky maybe?) has a solution that I adopted for a while. Just don't pick the disc up. In my mind that's a better way to handle things that assuming the guy who lost the disc is a bad guy and keeping him from finding his disc by chucking it in a pond or stream. The odds are that the next guy will keep the disc, but at least it's not on you.

 

[brandon21486]

How many of the courses in your guys' area have dropoffs for the local club/shops? I live in KC and at my home course, Water Works, there is a disc dropoff for lost discs. Then the people at Dynamic Discs will call you and give you so long to pick it up. I recently lost my first disc I didn't get back but it was while doing field work at a non-DG park so I didn't expect to get it back. So far in my experience DG'ers are likely to return a disc if they find it...non-DG'ers not so much.

 

[DavidSauls]

How many of the courses in your guys' area have dropoffs for the local club/shops? I live in KC and at my home course, Water Works, there is a disc dropoff for lost discs. Then the people at Dynamic Discs will call you and give you so long to pick it up. I recently lost my first disc I didn't get back but it was while doing field work at a non-DG park so I didn't expect to get it back. So far in my experience DG'ers are likely to return a disc if they find it...non-DG'ers not so much.

Our private course does, but none of the public courses around here.

Trophy Lakes (Charleston, SC) has a different version of this whole scenario. Lots of water, swimming is not allowed, but periodically they scuba-dive for discs, put them in their pro shop, and charge a $2 finders fee.

Unlike most of these other stories, you know this going in and so have implicitly agreed with it, in advance.

 

[JC17393]

How many of the courses in your guys' area have dropoffs for the local club/shops? I live in KC and at my home course, Water Works, there is a disc dropoff for lost discs. Then the people at Dynamic Discs will call you and give you so long to pick it up. I recently lost my first disc I didn't get back but it was while doing field work at a non-DG park so I didn't expect to get it back. So far in my experience DG'ers are likely to return a disc if they find it...non-DG'ers not so much.

Most courses around here are privately owned pay-for-play with pro shops on site. Pretty much all of them have a lost-and-found for players to turn in found discs. It removes all responsibility from the finder other than transporting the disc from where ever on the course they found it to the shop.

It also makes it pretty cut and dried as far as ownership of the disc goes. If the player gives up the search for whatever reason (darkness, time, water, etc), they don't lose ownership of it...the course becomes the defacto "custodian" of the disc until the player can retrieve it. Anyone taking a disc they find but do not own from the course property is technically stealing it, whether you want to consider it theft from the owner or theft from the course.

Having the lost and found service doesn't prevent players from keeping found discs, unfortunately, but it makes a big difference. Players who get discs back from the L&F are typically more inclined to turn in the discs they find to "return the favor" or "bank some karma".

 

[gradus]

Hook,
Someone here (big sky maybe?) has a solution that I adopted for a while. Just don't pick the disc up.

Another solution - call the number and leave it in an easy to find spot on the course (ie. under the trash can on hole #1)

 

[DavidSauls]

Another solution - call the number and leave it in an easy to find spot on the course (ie. under the trash can on hole #1)

I've had a surprising number where I called, and the owners were still on the course. Makes it real easy.

 

[DavidSauls]

Most courses around here are privately owned pay-for-play with pro shops on site. Pretty much all of them have a lost-and-found for players to turn in found discs. It removes all responsibility from the finder other than transporting the disc from where ever on the course they found it to the shop.

It also makes it pretty cut and dried as far as ownership of the disc goes. If the player gives up the search for whatever reason (darkness, time, water, etc), they don't lose ownership of it...the course becomes the defacto "custodian" of the disc until the player can retrieve it. Anyone taking a disc they find but do not own from the course property is technically stealing it, whether you want to consider it theft from the owner or theft from the course.

Having the lost and found service doesn't prevent players from keeping found discs, unfortunately, but it makes a big difference. Players who get discs back from the L&F are typically more inclined to turn in the discs they find to "return the favor" or "bank some karma".

You probably don't have many unauthorized pond-divers, either.

 

[grotto]

Another solution - call the number and leave it in an easy to find spot on the course (ie. under the trash can on hole #1)

This is what I do now. After my last fiasco trying for two weeks to get a disc back to what seemed to be a burnt out stoner, I just called him one day and told him where I left it.

I found your disc, here it is, you get it.

We don't have a lost and found around us, seems like a great idea though.

 

[Jay Dub]

Most people around here will use the Mt Airy pro shop (The Nati) to drop discs off they found on any course in the area.

 

[Noill]

I've heard some stories about the lost & found at one course (not to be named) wherein the emps take what they want or throw into the pond... I don't have any idea if it's true... in fact, I doubt it but there it is all the same and I did hear this from someone who knows the course well and isn't one to make stuff up...

 

[JC17393]

You probably don't have many unauthorized pond-divers, either.

At my course, the one pond is barely more than a mud puddle and probably 4 feet deep at most. We don't discourage players from wading in for their discs if they want, mostly because we aren't interested in doing it ourselves (not even for our own discs). As long as those waders turn in anything they find, it works out. But we also have rakes by the pond that are long enough to reach every inch of the pond's bottom, so wading isn't always necessary.

Other courses do have authorized divers and a no unauthorized swimming/wading policy for their water hazards. I know at least one of those courses pays their divers by the disc, so they in turn charge a $1 return fee to the players. No one really complains about it considering the alternative is usually to buy a brand-new replacement disc at $10-20 from the same people asking a measly dollar for your old disc. Kind of a no-brainer.

 

[DavidSauls]

It's possible. We once had some guys raid our lost & found and throw a bunch of them into the pond. And I have no idea how many people grab a disc out of lost-and-found to keep,when it's not theirs.

Regardless of which, it's a good idea to have one.

 

[DavidSauls]

I'm lucky in the pond-diving scheme, since the only local course with a major water hazard is one where recovered discs are always returned.....and I'm the most frequent pond-diver. Everywhere else I might play and sink a disc, would be far enough away from home that I tell the callers to keep it. Though some of those come back to me, too.

 

[Noill]

I usually find one when I lose one... that is when I throw into some schule and go looking forever only to come out with two of someone else's discs but not mine... really rather to have found mine esp since I don't throw what I find... usually no ink on what I do find and usually not at a place with a lost and found...

 

[JC17393]

It's possible. We once had some guys raid our lost & found and throw a bunch of them into the pond. And I have no idea how many people grab a disc out of lost-and-found to keep,when it's not theirs.

Regardless of which, it's a good idea to have one.

Early on, we figured out that some people were raiding the lost & found box rather than buying or renting discs to play with. So we moved the box behind the counter and started keeping a list for people to read instead. Now when a disc gets turned in, it gets logged on the list and players can check there to see if it's been turned in. If it has, we retrieve it from the box for them.

Obviously a bit tougher to do if there isn't a manned pro shop with fixed hours so players know when there will be someone around to assist them.

 

[DavidSauls]

We had them sitting on my porch, free to browse, until the incident with the pond. Now they're in my house, available when I'm there.

There's still no protection against someone claiming a disc that they don't own, but I figure it's less likely if I'm there.

Like the rest of this thread, to some degree we just rely on the honor of the players, while recognizing that we're dealing with an assortment of humans. But we're already accepting that reality when we allow people to come on the property.

 

[JC17393]

We had them sitting on my porch, free to browse, until the incident with the pond. Now they're in my house, available when I'm there.

There's still no protection against someone claiming a disc that they don't own, but I figure it's less likely if I'm there.

Like the rest of this thread, to some degree we just rely on the honor of the players, while recognizing that we're dealing with an assortment of humans. But we're already accepting that reality when we allow people to come on the property.

You're right that it's tough to protect against someone claiming a disc that isn't actually theirs, but this is where our list helps IMO. All I list is color, mold, and name/identifying mark. I'd say 99.5% of the time, someone looking to swipe a disc out of the L&F doesn't know enough about discs to be able to identify the one they want by the mold name alone.

They're the same folks who when they do buy a disc, they either buy the one with the cool artwork or the one with the fastest speed rating...or both in the case of DX Destroyers.