Form Check

[texasissouth]

I understand that I'm leading with my upper body and pushing my spine forward. I just have a question about the lean back.
Could you clarify these points?
"The spine should be tilted away from the target still as the lead leg catches your weight"
"The spine tilting away from the target in your backswing is not good"
If you're not tilting the spine during your backswing how can it be tilted when you touch down with the front plant?

 

[texasissouth]

The 5 minute edit window is restricting me a lot

I'm just confused looking at this

 

[slowplastic]

Yeah that is confusing...this video should help illustrate better.

The rear leg supports the spine and that initiates the backswing or at least the hip turn back. The spine/weight shifts to the lead leg and you will still be reaching back farther as you plant. But essentially the backswing starts on the rear leg in a standstill throw, like you are punching someone behind you with your right hand, which would require bracing against the left side. This would cause the spine to tilt toward the target at this point, which is opposite of what you are doing.

Things don't look like as big of a sway back and forth in the X-step because you are dynamically balanced as you are striding targetward. But the rear leg needs to have balance as the backswing is initiated and the weight is then transferred to the lead leg.

 

[texasissouth]

I guess that is a poor video to base my standstill throw off of then. I think leaning back for a standstill could work because you can then just fall into the plant with the correct angle and not worry too much about setting it up in time and your lean back counters the weight of your arm and everything on the other side of the left foot. At least it seems to work that way for Will because he leans back for standstills multiple times in that video.

Either way, probably not a good habit to get into, I'll try something different. I've watched the crush the can vid and the encabulator and I even have a pool cue to mimic my spine. It's frustrating to try and transfer those multiple broken down movements into one thing timed correctly, even when I know what I want my limbs to do it doesn't come out that way.

 

[slowplastic]

I don't understand how leaning back would counter the weight of your arm? That makes it worse from my perspective. And what other side of the left foot, are you meaning outside of the foot itself in no man's land? There's no leverage out there...got to stay inside of your stance.

The spine is the axis, so when your right arm swings back your left butt has to go targetwards. Your right hip goes back counterclockwise, left butt towards target, both around spine. Then the spine gets moved onto the plant leg, left side is behind you for that shift from behind. The left side is what is on the other side of the spine from your right arm, to provide the leverage to swing from.

Notice how these images are kind of mirrored of each other in lots of ways, although not 100% because he has the goal of loading in a backswing and unleashing the disc, rather than doing a perpetual backswing/forwardswing motion where things would be fully equal and opposite, except considering one arm has a disc and the other does not.

 

[slowplastic]

I think where the complication lies, is that the entire backswing is not on the rear leg. The backswing is initiated against the rear leg, and the rest of the backswing happens balanced ready to land on the plant foot. The balance has already shifted between the two sets of images that I have posted. The first image is against the front leg and this would likely mimic the power pocket position of a LHBH throw if he was throwing away from the camera rather than loading for a RHBH throw. Then in the second image the spine is getting ready to balance against the plant foot, even though the plant leg does not have weight yet. But he is ready to catch himself from behind when he lands on his right foot, and this balance allows the backswing to get deeper as the plant foot comes down.

It's like when you're running and you step off your right foot...you are then ready to be in balance on your left foot even though it doesn't have the weight yet.

If anything is incorrect I am definitely open to suggestions, I don't have perfect form.

 

[billyjacko]

Also good to note, Schusterick is made of spaghetti and no one can throw a standstill like him. As SW describes it, he basically throws a standstill like he's doing a full x-step. I learn more from watching guys I can actually emulate.

 

[slowplastic]

I think where the complication lies, is that the entire backswing is not on the rear leg. The backswing is initiated against the rear leg, and the rest of the backswing happens balanced ready to land on the plant foot. The balance has already shifted between the two sets of images that I have posted. The first image is against the rear leg and this would likely mimic the power pocket position of a LHBH throw if he was throwing away from the camera rather than loading for a RHBH throw. Then in the second image the spine is getting ready to balance against the plant foot, even though the plant leg does not have weight yet. But he is ready to catch himself from behind when he lands on his right foot, and this balance allows the backswing to get deeper as the plant foot comes down.

Sorry, the first image is against the rear leg. I got all messed up because I was imagining the LHBH parallel thing I was talking about, where that leg would be the plant leg of LHBH away from the camera.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[texasissouth]

When I get a chance I'll video some one leg throws. Looks like we're going as simple as possible; "Remove everything that doesn't look like David"

 

[texasissouth]

The more I take away the worse it gets. These all went about 100-120'. Still not getting hips into it and am coming over the top even on one leg.

 

[slowplastic]

Don't overly restrict the amount you let your rear foot contact the ground, just let it do what it wants. Also notice how SW22's first forward movement is a 1-3" shift of the lower body/pelvis/spine targetwards. You are starting with the right hip directly over the knee and the foot, and then getting the upper spine forward. Start slightly inside of the foot, and allow the rear foot to support a little weight/contact the ground more if it needs to. Get the butt/right hip/pelvis/lower spine, whatever of these things you want to focus on, to move slightly targetwards, rather than the shoulders.

 

[texasissouth]

So "one leg" drill is a little bit of a misnomer then and I should start with a little weight back on the left?

I'd go out right now and try again but it's pouring rain here. I had assumed you just kept all weight on the one leg through the whole thing; which is also hard cause I have terrible balance. I wasn't sure how to move the hips forward when they're already all over the plant, which is the case in my throws.

 

[sidewinder22]

Looks like your front leg is too stiff/locked out setting up, you want to be more athletic/dynamic on it with slight flex in hip/knee/ankle, able to bounce on it with balance more over your toes. As you move into the backswing, let your rear foot pivot heel down(targetward) so your weight stays relative forward on the front leg while moving center of gravity slightly toward the front heel/rear foot/right tee side. That should help allow your front hip to move back laterally away from target instead of toward the target in backswing, and then from having to reverse pivot in the forward swing with the hip retracting. You don't want the front hip to retract/reverse away from the target when you start swinging to target, you want to remain stacked and allow the pelvis/torso to pivot effortlessly over the front leg/hip. When you transition from the backswing to forward, your balance/center of gravity should shift back toward your front toes/left tee side so nose goes back over toes before you swing.

You shouldn't feel like your weight transfers away from the front leg to the rear leg when the rear heel goes down although the weight pressure on the rear foot may increase because your swing momentum is increasing the overall weight of you. The rear leg is just there as a support/balance to increase range of motion of the front hip.

Also put the other discs down out of your hand!

 

[texasissouth]

Also put the other discs down out of your hand!

I think my practice putting would annoy you

 

[sidewinder22]

I think my practice putting would annoy you

I don't think so putting, but I if was driving with a stack like that, it would wreck my bracing and they would be flying all over the place.

 

[texasissouth]

I don't think so putting, but I if was driving with a stack like that, it would wreck my bracing and they would be flying all over the place.

I'm just playing with you.

I normally don't drive with a stack in my hand, i was just getting such low velocity, and I was sure I was doing it wrong so I wanted to get as many reps on tape as easy as possible.

I do putt with a 7 disc stack off hand though...

 

[Putt for D'oh]

I practice putting with a stack a lot I don't think its anything abnormal and I actually carry two putters during a round even if i'm with a group and don't putt with both like I do when i'm on my own, just to have the feeling of another putter in my hand.

Driving though? or hell even throwing an upshot I can't do it. I've seen people that can and it blows me away its the biggest distraction I could ever have nothing feels right.

My take away from your one leg drill though.. and grain of salt because stuff I work on as well, but A) as SP said don't worry so much about your rear leg, but B) you need to feel the weight more evenly on your right/planted leg. It looks to me as you are way to the outer side when you are setting up to balance and you need to be firmly on the instep. Before you go trying to throw more get up on that leg and feel your weight roll or move around on all parts of that foot and get to the point you feel it evenly toe to heal and on the instep.

 

[texasissouth]

Driving though? or hell even throwing an upshot I can't do it. I've seen people that can and it blows me away its the biggest distraction I could ever have nothing feels right.

I've definitely done it with one disc in the off hand, it's not too bad. I wouldn't recommend it though, much like a lot of my form.

My balance is pretty bad overall so I was definitely rolling my weight around on my plant foot some. I think putting a little more in my off foot as recommended above and squatting a bit might change how the weight over the plant looks... we'll see tomorrow.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

Bending the knees should help a lot. It looked like you had the right idea bouncing at the very beginning but then your posture stiffened up. I thought it might help balance wise when you took your shoes off but didn't seem to too much. What I want to think about one legged is that you are moving laterally into that foot. Your weight is inside that foot and if when I throw my ankle is rolled over and I have weight on the outside I know ive come over the top some (or a lot). With the one leg drill if you need to do a balance check it should be back toward the body/rear leg. see how often you are close to lose balance forward/over the top?
I'm not sure much else to talk about balance I think mine is naturally pretty decent so tips? I would think about just feeling your weight on that one foot front back and each side to side. Bent leg/athletic position just on one leg.