Fwiw...a moment of spin.

[DiscFifty]

So in between rounds the other day I'm doing some warm up throws and a couple of guys jokingly ask for a long drive competition. I'm an ADV Grandmaster and the 2 of them were PRO grandmasters, how bad could it be? They snicker and tell me to use my driver and they will use their putters. I'm like...I'm throwing 330-350 today, I got this. rrright...

To my shock and wonder they're both easily throwing putters 350+. The strange thing was their discs seemed to be traveling in slow motion and just glided for...ever. They proceeded to tell me my arm speed was just as fast (if not faster) than theirs but I wasn't putting as much spin on the discs as they are.

So that's where I'm at for a while, trying to get more spin on my discs.

 

[runningDoc]

So in between rounds the other day I'm doing some warm up throws and a couple of guys jokingly ask for a long drive competition. I'm an ADV Grandmaster and the 2 of them were PRO grandmasters, how bad could it be? They snicker and tell me to use my driver and they will use their putters. I'm like...I'm throwing 330-350 today, I got this. rrright...

To my shock and wonder they're both easily throwing putters 350+. The strange thing was their discs seemed to be traveling in slow motion and just glided for...ever. They proceeded to tell me my arm speed was just as fast (if not faster) than theirs but I wasn't putting as much spin on the discs as they are.

So that's where I'm at for a while, trying to get more spin on my discs.

this is like.. the opposite of a beardedfatguy first post/thread start :hfive:

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Spin is more about leverage vs arm speed. Leverage translates to more power which produces more spin. A fast arm might actually cause less spin.

 

[46YearOldSlinger]

Would focusing on keeping the hand on the outside of the disc as long as possible help spin? It seems like it would but curious to find out from those that know more. Maybe a stronger pinch point between thumb and index?

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Both things are a part of solid leverage. Think of throwing opposite end of the disc from the grip point at the target line.

(grip doesnt need to be index specifically)

 

[ljerome]

This is always a question of mine and something I work on. Typically when the question comes up, there are some that reply that spin is a natural function of arm speed and will naturally happen if the arm speed is there. I tend to think that arm speed is one factor and that form and release point is another. There was a thread on here about "rounding" and I think that is typically my problem. I tend to "round" too much with the disc and arm coming too far away from my body before I release it. I believe this can decrease spin even though arm speed is good. I think HUB tried to show this in a thread with how the hand position should be on the disc during the pull and at release point. I also think that the Baeto drill is focusing on this and working on that can help. I can not do it consistently yet but am working on it because I too have seen slow flying discs go a long ways simply because they have increased spin. With that said, I try to focus of course on the core......legs, hips, shoulders the most but I think I am rounding which is not maximizing spin.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Spin happens.

It happens as a result of the hit.

The hit is most effective when you are holding the disc to the 4:00 position on the disc.

When you are "throwing opposite end of the disc from the grip point" as Aim so nicely put it - you will hit 4:00.

Translating angular momentum into forward velocity like that is the turbo button.

Slow hands are fine for this, because it's not hand speed that's imparting velocity on the disc.

When you add hand speed PLUS the hit, that's when you get some full value distance.

 

[filobedo]

So in between rounds the other day I'm doing some warm up throws and a couple of guys jokingly ask for a long drive competition. I'm an ADV Grandmaster and the 2 of them were PRO grandmasters, how bad could it be? They snicker and tell me to use my driver and they will use their putters. I'm like...I'm throwing 330-350 today, I got this. rrright...

To my shock and wonder they're both easily throwing putters 350+. The strange thing was their discs seemed to be traveling in slow motion and just glided for...ever. They proceeded to tell me my arm speed was just as fast (if not faster) than theirs but I wasn't putting as much spin on the discs as they are.

So that's where I'm at for a while, trying to get more spin on my discs.

Either of them wearing a red jumpsuit with a leopard print purse?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trcXlTiy3Xw

 

[araytx]

Both things are a part of solid leverage. Think of throwing opposite end of the disc from the grip point at the target line.

(grip doesnt need to be index specifically)

So in between rounds the other day I'm doing some warm up throws and a couple of guys jokingly ask for a long drive competition. I'm an ADV Grandmaster and the 2 of them were PRO grandmasters, how bad could it be? They snicker and tell me to use my driver and they will use their putters. I'm like...I'm throwing 330-350 today, I got this. rrright...

To my shock and wonder they're both easily throwing putters 350+. The strange thing was their discs seemed to be traveling in slow motion and just glided for...ever. They proceeded to tell me my arm speed was just as fast (if not faster) than theirs but I wasn't putting as much spin on the discs as they are.

So that's where I'm at for a while, trying to get more spin on my discs.

Dave, first of all, we played you a little bit. We knew that where we were throwing was against the wind, so throwing an overstable putter without flipping it over would give it some extra lift and glide ... but that's just knowledge and experience from playing alot over the years. ... Plus, it was only about 300'

The thing Aim talks about, throwing the opposite end of the disc is true. You need to think more like you're throwing a weighted axe, than an an evenly-distributed-weight, round, flying disc. Brad Walker talks about this a bit in his More Snap videos. The "more spin" thing is what we saw then. You have to get to a point of good balance of power (or force) and spin.

See what Bradley says: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGGYsSUGKXk

 

[MichaelWebster]

Plus, it was only about 300'

Thanks for the internet distance conversion.

 

[rhatton1]

Spin happens.

It happens as a result of the hit.

The hit is most effective when you are holding the disc to the 4:00 position on the disc.

When you are "throwing opposite end of the disc from the grip point" as Aim so nicely put it - you will hit 4:00.

Translating angular momentum into forward velocity like that is the turbo button.

Slow hands are fine for this, because it's not hand speed that's imparting velocity on the disc.

When you add hand speed PLUS the hit, that's when you get some full value distance.

This ^ It was the point Blake came back to again and again and HUB constantly reiterates well - if you are not adding to the power of the hit/pivot then all motion before that is wasted. If you are too fast into to hold on and actively pull through the hit/pivot then you will not get the real power/speed/spin out of the disc. HUB's slow down to throw far article summed it up beautifully.

Basically only take in the speed you can add to coming out. There were so many analogies for this over on DGR - racing car accelerating out of the corner was my favourite.

 

[DiscFifty]

Dave, first of all, we played you a little bit. We knew that where we were throwing was against the wind, so throwing an overstable putter without flipping it over would give it some extra lift and glide ... but that's just knowledge and experience from playing alot over the years. ... Plus, it was only about 300'

The thing Aim talks about, throwing the opposite end of the disc is true. You need to think more like you're throwing a weighted axe, than an an evenly-distributed-weight, round, flying disc. Brad Walker talks about this a bit in his More Snap videos. The "more spin" thing is what we saw then. You have to get to a point of good balance of power (or force) and spin.

See what Bradley says: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGGYsSUGKXk

Good stuff as usual thx...but Glen stayed around and threw some bombs that were crazy far with incredible glide. Easily pushing past the earlier throws. Just nuts.... on a few of his throws I studied his grip, hand position, etc. No doubt spin in the missing ingredient. That throwing the opposite end of the disc is something I've never mentally tried, need to focus on that for a while. Once I'm throwing my putters 300' I think I'll be on track. lol..

 

[Jukeshoe]

Thanks for the internet distance conversion.

lulz!

 

[wreckreation]

I cannot throw a putter 300+'. Yet. But what I can do, thanks to the shape of my back yard and my practice basket, is throw 180' putter tunnel shots 5' to 8' high reasonably well. And nothing helped me more than the day I was a bit off and was struggling to hit the gap a few weeks ago and decided to experiment with actually trying to put more spin on the putter.

I had never tried to consciously spin the disc because everyone says not to. But for me personally, trying to spin the disc more caused me for the first time ever to feel what it's like to "throw around the nose". And several things happened immediately. My putters got to the basket with what felt like 50% of the effort I had been using before. They flew straighter, with OS discs fading later and US discs turning less, and my accuracy increased dramatically (especially when I make sure my pull line is exactly lined up with my intended flight line, and passes right by my chest). I literally hit the basket 4 consecutive times that day at one point, with the 4th sticking. It was pretty surreal. Since then I sometimes lose the feel for it, but never 100% and I'm always more accurate when throwing like that. It actually feels to me like what it looks like when McBeth throws his Nova.

I feel like if I could integrate this with a full throw I would stop sucking so bad off the tee with drivers. Just haven't had much time lately to experiment in a field. If only my yard was a little longer...

 

[treysonagras]

A 180-foot tunnel shot is WAY more valuable than a 300-foot drive. Well, maybe not way more....but you know what I mean.

 

[Kodachrome]

You simply cannot intentionally force your wrist open fast enough to add anything to a shot unless your mechanics are out of whack and therefore not generating much power to begin with. Your wrist as a spring loaded lever is much stronger than your muscles themselves. Get out of its way.

You can go out and try to spin your drivers if you'd like. Perhaps you are doing something different while trying to spin the disc that has caused the improvement.

But no - consciously trying to add spin, all other things being equal, will only detract from your throw on all but the touchiest of touch shots.

You can throw 180' foot tunnel shots with proper form too. And with proper form it'll be much easier to throw those putters 300'. Why not have both?

 

[wreckreation]

You simply cannot intentionally force your wrist open fast enough to add anything to a shot...

I said nothing about forcing my wrist to do anything. I don't see why experimenting with ways to add more spin makes you think I intentionally force my wrist open.

Perhaps you are doing something different while trying to spin the disc that has caused the improvement.

Yes, this was my whole point. Thinking, "how can I get more spin?" caused me to try a few adjustments until finally I was able to get more "whip" or "throwing around the nose" or "snap" or whatever other buzz words/phrases apply. And I do think it resulted in more spin than my old throw (causing straighter flights?), which I now realize was me just pulling the disc by the nose and getting it to fly by brute force instead of using leverage.

But no - consciously trying to add spin, all other things being equal, will only detract from your throw

It enhanced my putter drives considerably. I think I need to do the same thing with my drivers but my few attempts felt awkward and my release angles were all over the place, so I need to work on it more.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

You can try to control spin and its very easy to spin a disc at high RPMs without it travelling any area FW at all but it wont help you throw discs. Spin just brings stabilization to a throw and is the result of solid mechanics. Too much spin and lack of power is just as bad as too much torque and no spin. Discs are not UFOs but hammers which is why rim weight matters.



Gyro

 

[sddabrow]

You can try to control spin and its very easy to spin a disc at high RPMs without it travelling any area FW at all but it wont help you throw discs. Spin just brings stabilization to a throw and is the result of solid mechanics. Too much spin and lack of power is just as bad as too much torque and no spin. Discs are not UFOs but hammers which is why rim weight matters.



Gyro

He loves the gyro!

 

[Kodachrome]

And nothing helped me more than the day I was a bit off and was struggling to hit the gap a few weeks ago and decided to experiment with actually trying to put more spin on the putter.

I had never tried to consciously spin the disc because everyone says not to. But for me personally, trying to spin the disc more caused me for the first time ever to feel what it's like to "throw around the nose".

Sorry if I misunderstood, but those are your words.

if you try to put more spin on a throw like it's just something you can add with your wrist, then it will fail. That's my point. Not that you cannot control it, but that it is not something you can just select a new input for without changing other parts of the throw.

I'm not trying to be an instigator-there are newer players here that talk about getting more spin on the disc and then other newer players who try to follow the advice to improve, naturally. The problem is when it is treated as if it were a separate controllable variable, when it is almost 100% dependent upon the speed at moment of release and the grip on the disc.

We all went through this kind of thing when we first started up.