Gateway

[Working Stiff]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYfytPTs5qU

I have no comment due to the fact that I'm a cynical bastard and see ulterior motives everywhere. Anyone with a more objective view than I have a comment?

 

[GorillaTactics]

Obviously he wants more people to diversify (i.e. throw his products) because it's good for his business. I kind of agree though, unless you're a sponsored pro (a tiny percentage of the disc golf community) it's kind of silly to throw only one manufacturer's discs just because you like the brand name. If everybody throws some discs from every company, then all the companies win and $$ comes back in to the industry to (hopefully) push new technology, molds, plastic blends, etc, which I think is the underlying point behind the rant.

 

[DigIt]

Obviously he wants more people to diversify (i.e. throw his products) because it's good for his business. I kind of agree though, unless you're a sponsored pro (a tiny percentage of the disc golf community) it's kind of silly to throw only one manufacturer's discs just because you like the brand name. If everybody throws some discs from every company, then all the companies win and $$ comes back in to the industry to (hopefully) push new technology, molds, plastic blends, etc, which I think is the underlying point behind the rant.

It's also a bit silly to tell people what to throw. You're right though, it does smack a little of self promotion through seemingly altruistic wording.

But then again I throw Gateway so I am a bit alienated by his speech.

 

[DiscGolfTeeSigns.com]

good reasons to throw all one company:


- you're a fanboy, or feel some personality boost from projecting brandname love/hate (silly)

- it's the absolute best setup for your game (possible)

- your sponsorship is such that you are a billboard (top pros of top companies)

- you just haven't tried other brands, or they aren't readily available (deferred adjudication... get it together and try things)


i don't disagree with Dave here. but it is something you're more likely hear from the smaller company, rather than the big two.

 

[black udder]

I like the idea - it's funny, I do tend to throw Innova drivers, Discraft mids and Gateway putters. I have some Discraft drivers, but it's all subjective to me. I can't imagine voluntarily not throwing other manufacturers discs out of some sort of misguided loyalty.

I think what Dave is getting at here is that by allowing his sponsored players to throw anything, hopefully, he can pull some of the better players over to his side. Maybe they only use Gateway putters, but the player would be Gateway sponsored and ride their flag through the tournaments. Let's face it, how much would having a Gateway Feldberg signature disc help them? A ton - you know.

Dave really is the little guy in the battle for discs, so he needs to do whatever he can to try and get some up and coming names to him while he can. Most of the established touring pros are already signed up with Innova or Discraft.

I like Dave, but he really is the Maverick. He's willing to talk (and loves to talk) disc golf, disc making, etc. with just about anybody willing to listen. I don't think you get that with Innova or Discraft.

I'd like to see GDS come out with some sort of champ/Z plastic. I like that and I don't believe he uses it. Also, I don't know that the Evolution is the same as the Star/ESP stuff (grip wise). You see a lot of "slick E" discs.

With the drivers I've tried from GDS, they've either been too overstable for my use or the rim was uncomfortable for me. Hard to explain, but it's why there are no GDS drivers in my bag. No midranges only because I've got a Discraft pro that runs our league and prizes are a disc. Can't beat those putters though - just marvelous. And I love the plastics they come in, too.

 

[Working Stiff]

The line that got me was the one about the "exclusive nature" that is "ruining disc golf." I have no idea what he is talking about. Is he talking about sponsored pros? If he is, then maybe...I don't know. I don't play MPO and I don't hang around with sponsored MPO players. Does the "I shill for a different company than you" reality of sponsorship cause friction on the MOP cards? It quite possibly could. Is it "ruining disc golf?" Maybe for that small group of players. I'm not sure how it effects the rest of us.

At this point, the existence of "professional" disc golf really effects me in one way. The fact that there are top pros and top tournaments means there are people out trying to make better courses that will challenge the top players to host these top tournaments. Without a "professional" tour, you remove the incentive for people to push course design. I get to play on those courses, so I benefit from the "professional" tour in that way.

Other than that, what happens in the "professional" tour has no effect on me one way or the other. The only way an "exclusive nature" would ruin disc golf for me is if it made Dave go belly-up and I ran out of Wizards!

 

[DigIt]

Other than that, what happens in the "professional" tour has no effect on me one way or the other. The only way an "exclusive nature" would ruin disc golf for me is if it made Dave go belly-up and I ran out of Wizards!

Bite your tongue!

 

[black udder]

You might be surprised to find out how many average players only throw one brand - for whatever reason. I know I've seen several posts of folks saying they don't throw brand X or brand Y sucks, etc.

I don't know that it ruins disc golf, but it certainly doesn't give you your best chance for success if you exclude discs that might be better for you just because of the company.

I also believe that you're affected more by the pro players than you might think. The pros drive the rules we play by, the drive the development of new discs (especially faster, more overstable), new courses (as you said), sales (discs, dvds, merchandise - as sales go up, more stores are able to stay in business). Probably more, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

I wish I could say education - as in pros make videos and educational material, but man, that is few and far between. I firmly believe the AMs drive that more than anybody. Not that the pros don't have good advice or skill, but it sure does appear that most of them fall into the "I can do it, but I can't teach it" category.

From the few conversations I've had with Dave, I get the feeling that he's in it for Disc Golf (and hopefully a profit!) while the other companies certainly appear to be in it for a buck. Nothing wrong with that, but using an NFL analogy - he'd be a player's owner

 

[Midnightbiker]

I think they guy needs some rest. Did you see the bags under his eyes? :shock:

 

[DigIt]

I think they guy needs some rest. Did you see the bags under his eyes? :shock:

Yea their so big I can see his putter pocket.

 

[mark12b]

if you want to hear more of what dave mccormack has to say, the pdga radio news from a couple weeks ago has a good "interview" (it's really more of a monologue )

http://pdga.com/pdgaradio/

 

[discdawg1]

Great philosophy, IMO.

 

[Bif13]

I agree with discdawg, I throw discraft and millennium because its what I know. I also sell both as a vendor, discdawg sells innova and millennium but he carries and throws innova, mil, discraft, gateway. If you don't carry/throw what works best for you then you are "screwing" yourself.

 

[rromeo]

Dave is a bit of a fast talker. He is very animated about discs and disc golf. I don't know if only throwing one brand of disc is ruining disc golf but, I do agree that throwing what works for you make sense,irregardless of brand.

 

[wdb4th1]

I only throw Quest and Gateway... with one exception but let us not go into that. The reason well, i like working with Steve and Dave. They are more than willing to make sure you have everything you need to promote the sport. But from a playing standpoint, there are a lot of commited players out there, either that are sponsored or seeking sponsorship that would love to be able to throw a wizard or a magic. (I throw the magic)

I think it is more about letting people know that if you are seeking sponsorship and the only way you are to get sponsored is by banning all other brands that maybe it isn't worth it. expecially if it is going to hurt your game.

 

[Beetard]

btw, Dave can throw like a mofo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGn1kNlNxnY

I think he hit that mountain.

 

[Working Stiff]

btw, Dave can throw like a mofo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGn1kNlNxnY

I think he hit that mountain.

Dave had a top 10 World's finish, I think it was '88 in Cincinnati. I might be messing the whole story up, but I believe they did not have a final 9 back then and he was on the leader card for the last round. He faded and finished like 8th I want to say, Like I say, I'm repeating that from memory and may have screwed up the details, but at that time he was one of the top players in the sport. He won some big events like the Minnesota Majestic and KC Wide Open back then, but he was also a very good soccer player and gave up disc golf for a few years to devote more time to soccer. He hurt his knee and came back to disc golf, but he was running his construction company by then and never had the time to devote to getting back up to the top ranks of players.

We used to call him the Daviar. He used to CRUSH big bead Avairs. Once he was in the circle he couldn't put one in the basket, but off the tee he could bomb. Actually, he wasn't nearly as bad a putter as his reputation, but even he used to tell people he couldn't putt. He never got back up to the top levels of the sport, but he still regularly won B & C tiers around here until the early 00's. He probably has over 100 PDGA wins in MPO.

 

[dgdave]

The first time I met Dave, he and Jon E. Were crushing aviars 350 ft, it was before they were making Wizards, and demons over 400. It was the craziest thing I had ever saw. He then talked my ear off for an hour about why a demon can go 400 ft. After that tourney, I had a bag full of free gateway because I played a round with him and another with another gds guy and they liked me.

 

[DiscGolfTeeSigns.com]

there's a Jon E Mac Wizard on my roof

 

[Timko]

DaveMac was the 1st guy I ever saw throw a sabre over 450'. Granted, he had some wind, but he had told me that the Sabre can be crushed if you get he right wind. So I was in STL travelling down to Arkansas to see family, and asked him to demonstrate. Which he was happy to do.