Have discs really improved that much over time?

[kerplunk]

I will add that the proliferation of sidearm throwers is very closely tied to the advances in stable/OS fast drivers.

I agree, and would add that it also allows players who don't have a natural forehand to throw pretty good forehand shots compared to what they would have been able to do with slower discs. McBeth himself has admitted his FH isn't the best so he often relies on an overstable Destroyer, IIRC. And I believe KC has said he would probably have a better FH if the faster discs had been around in his heyday.

One think I have always wondered; it seems the rules have allowed warp-speed discs for a long time, so why did it take so long for ultra-wide rimmed drivers to come to the market?

 

[@iDiscGolf]

iirc dunipace was leading the charge to limit rim width during the warp speed driver arms race a few years back. doubt his opinion has changed.

While he produces a 14 speed disc called the Colossus...

 

[Pbmercil]

I agree, and would add that it also allows players who don't have a natural forehand to throw pretty good forehand shots compared to what they would have been able to do with slower discs. McBeth himself has admitted his FH isn't the best so he often relies on an overstable Destroyer, IIRC. And I believe KC has said he would probably have a better FH if the faster discs had been around in his heyday.

Yeah, that's really a load of crap. He may have said it, and he probably believes it NOW, but its just not true. A lot of what would now be considered Old School guys, but were actually in there prime back then, REALLY looked down at players with forehands when that shot first started becoming more common. At that time they couldn't comprehend why you just wouldn't learn the turnover roc shot instead of the sidearm firebird shot. Those guys ended up being wrong, and they probably regret it now, but they were sure sidearm was a crutch back in the day. I have an super old clash dvd at the house where both Climo and Barry Shultz actually laugh at a player for throwing the sidearm hyzer. Barry is playing and also does the commentary on the DVD, and he says something pretty close to (but not a word for word quote) :

Yeah, he makes that forehand work for that shot. The kid really just needs to learn how to throw the Roc shot in these spots like the rest of the best players in the world. It gets him thru here, but if he wants to take his game to the next level he can't be throwing that shot on left to rights like that.

 

[DG_Before_Breakfast]

Definitely a lot more options now in terms of plastics and Disc characteristics. All the light weight discs are good for lower power and new players. All the different plastics means you can probably find one that really feels good in your hand.

Does that mean you can get a better score than someone that has mastered the Aviar, Roc, Teebird, Firebird and Destroyer with different levels of wear/stability by using a newer disc? Probably not.

But maybe it does mean that as a casual player you can finds discs that (at least seem to) suit you better and improve your score. Plus it is fun to try them all out So I think the new discs really benefit the mid to low end of player skill, and casual players, but maybe not the guys who really care about technique and winning tournaments.

 

[domromer]

Roc..aviar..Firebird...leopard..FTW!

 

[Pbmercil]

Does that mean you can get a better score than someone that has mastered the Aviar, Roc, Teebird, Firebird and Destroyer with different levels of wear/stability by using a newer disc?

It makes me really sad that there are people who consider the Destroyer an old mold.

 

[domromer]

It makes me really sad that there are people who consider the Destroyer an old mold.

+1......

 

[DG_Before_Breakfast]

It makes me really sad that there are people who consider the Destroyer an old mold.

Totally accurate. Was not playing Disc Golf before 2007. I started in 2012 so probably shouldn't post an opinion. Given this in the internet, I will anyway

The Destroyer seems like the standard Innova high speed driver now - the high speed successor to the Innova classics. I do think you need a high speed driver to be a Pro these days, but maybe you could do OK with a Speed 9 like a Valkyrie or Beast. My point is that if you could master those 5 discs, 4 of which were around by the year 2000 you could compete with anyone.

It also seems like the proliferation of Disc Golf manufacturers is very recent, and that is kind of what we were talking about. Now you have a ton of choices, with special properties (Blizzard, Dual Mold/Gyro) but are they really better than the "standard" choices from Innova/Discraft? I don't really think so. However personally, I do find that I like the MVP Volt better than a Teebird, a Lat64 Pure better than the Aviar, and the Legacy Patriot better than a Leopard. So for me, a casual player, it is nice to have those options and I think I do get better scores because I have more confidence in those discs - they were easier for me to "master" in the time I have to play.

 

[Mushin No Shin]

Everything after the destroyer seems like a wash to me.

Agreed

Though large people and their hands appreciate the wider rims, so there is that aspect

 

[Star Shark]

It wasn't so much Dave Dunipace who was against the high speed drivers, it was Harold Duvall. He gave the dramatic address in front of the PDGA board. It's a difficult situation, now. People love the warp speed discs but most aren't really capable of throwing them properly. This makes them very dangerous. It's very easy to hit a random pedestrian if you don't have much control over a Boss or a Halo. This evolution of disc golf is pushing it away from the multi use park tradition it started with. Let's face it, most people have no idea we're out there. You wouldn't have random pedestrians wandering through a ball golf course, would you? Our discs have become just as dangerous basically since the first fairway drivers were invented. It's just worse now with the sharper edges and lack of control.

 

[domromer]

It wasn't so much Dave Dunipace who was against the high speed drivers, it was Harold Duvall. He gave the dramatic address in front of the PDGA board. It's a difficult situation, now. People love the warp speed discs but most aren't really capable of throwing them properly. This makes them very dangerous. It's very easy to hit a random pedestrian if you don't have much control over a Boss or a Halo. This evolution of disc golf is pushing it away from the multi use park tradition it started with. Let's face it, most people have no idea we're out there. You wouldn't have random pedestrians wandering through a ball golf course, would you? Our discs have become just as dangerous basically since the first fairway drivers were invented. It's just worse now with the sharper edges and lack of control.

Which is why I wish Super Class golf would gain some more traction...but that's a whole different thread.

 

[Pbmercil]

This evolution of disc golf is pushing it away from the multi use park tradition it started with.

Is that such a bad thing? Isn't that exactly the solution to the problem?

 

[DanJon]

Is that such a bad thing? Isn't that exactly the solution to the problem?

No because the large majority of disc golf courses are still in, around and through multi-use parks.

People are out there throwing noob-hyzers with Nukes on 250' holes, while families are walking by or having a picnic.

It's great that we now have more elite level disc golf courses away from multi-use park areas, but they aren't as easy to get to and play for the majority of disc golfers.

So Duvall had a point that still remains somewhat relevant.

 

[domromer]

Is that such a bad thing? Isn't that exactly the solution to the problem?

I think the fact that it's in multiuse parks is what makes it so accesable to so many people.

 

[Star Shark]

It's not even the war speeders. You throw an iffy shot with a Leopard and it will hurt someone if thrown at reasonable speed. So we have players who don't throw very well throwing deiscs that could be hazardous around people who have no idea what's going on.

 

[COLODISCR]

I think DG is going away from the multi use park courses to stand alone courses but not just because of new disc technology. Multi use parks are an absolute pain on busy weekends and usually require you to skip holes because of people oblivious to disc golf. There is still injury risk in those situations no matter if you are playing with nothing but a putter. The risk of injury would definitely be greater with a high speed drivers though.

I personally welcome the changes. The newest courses around here are almost like stand alone DG courses with nothing but low use walking trails on them. It makes it much more fun and easier to get out on a weekend without having to worry about picnics on the fairway of hole #4. It also leads to the possibility of being able to design large championship level courses in large open areas to keep up with disc development.

 

[PWaggoner]

No because the large majority of disc golf courses are still in, around and through multi-use parks.

People are out there throwing noob-hyzers with Nukes on 250' holes, while families are walking by or having a picnic.

It's great that we now have more elite level disc golf courses away from multi-use park areas, but they aren't as easy to get to and play for the majority of disc golfers.

So Duvall had a point that still remains somewhat relevant.

Drivers for noobs are predictable, always go left. Its the light weight starter back noobs thatll hit you if your not watching. Turn over a shark, wack. Doesnt hurt as much, but still.

The issue is teaching people not to throw when others are present and unaware. Its common sense, it doesn't matter if your throwing a driver, putter, paper plate. You cant throw things at people, especially if itll do damage. I hope the spirit of the game will get printed up and posted at every course to teach the unaware tossers.

I think we need both type of parks for steady progress.