[Innova] Help filling the gap in my bag

[SilentExodus04]

Hey all. Looking to figure out how to improve my disc selection to be more right for my current level. I'm throwing about 250 on a hyzer line and about 300 on a flex or hyzer flip line if I get the right release and depending on disc, still in my first year of throwing. I can get to about 350 if I'm lucky.

My most consistent disc: Star Leopard.
My best distance: Star Tern

Here's what i currently bag and how they throw for me:
172 Star Aviar (putt)
172 R-Pro Aviar (approach, hills)
176 Star Mako3 (mid)
150 Dx Leopard (very understable now, too light to be consistent, want to replace)
165 Star Leopard (pretty stable version of my dx leo, good hyzer flip to flat with my power)
165 Champ Beast (haven't figured out if I like this or not, when i release it anni it doesn't want to fade back consistently, and I can't hyzer flip it yet)
168 Star Tern (If I can get a flat/anni throw with no headwind this will S out nice)
161 Star Destroyer (I use this whenever there are high winds or I must have good fade back at the end)

I've been researching discs, especially the ones pros like to use, and I'm finding a trend of a lot of people wanting to throw discs with the same numbers as a destroyer for the turn and fade (-1, 3) for a consistent reliable flight. That brought me to look at the following discs below.

S7: Teebird (a straight shot that I don't really have in my bag right now)
S7: Leopard 3 (longer version of my star leo perhaps?)
S7: Eagle (same stability numbers as destroyer, wraith, orc)

S9: Firebird (Why do people like glow ones?)
S9: Thunderbird (less stable than firebird, kinda like orc.)
S10: Champion/Star Orc?
S11: Star Wraith (Baby destroyer)

I've also been wanting to replace my DX leo with a better understable disc that will last because the only reason my dx leo is so understable is because it's tore up. It tends to flip too soon for me so I can only use it on short holes that go to the right at the end.

S9: roadrunner (roller/extra turnover)
S9: sidewinder (roller/extra turnover, but 1 less than roadrunner)

As you can see, I've tried to do the research but AHHH there are so many discs to try and so many different plastics and weights. Not to mention I know a disc isn't going to make me better overnight, but I feel like I'm missing some of the tools I should have in my bag now that I'm getting to a point in my game when i'm starting to need more options to improve myself more quickly. I find myself reaching for the Tern and Destroyer, and on days when I'm feeling great they fly great, but if I have an off day they just suck and the star leo would have been the more consistent choice overall.

 

[SD86]

Since you have a Star Leopard, I'd suggest you try a Star or Champion Leopard3 and see how it does for you.

Other than that, I'd say use the discs that you like and are fun to throw. You're going to get a ton of suggestions and ideas, so sift through them and see if something seems worth trying...

 

[SilentExodus04]

Since you have a Star Leopard, I'd suggest you try a Star or Champion Leopard3 and see how it does for you.

Other than that, I'd say use the discs that you like and are fun to throw. You're going to get a ton of suggestions and ideas, so sift through them and see if something seems worth trying...

I like the idea of just bumping up by 1 speed to start, but I'm just worried about having too much overlap to my Star Leo. Not sure how different the Leo 3 is compared to my existing Leo or a Teebird which I keep hearing that I need to have one.

 

[Meillo]

Not to mention I know a disc isn't going to make me better overnight, but I feel like I'm missing some of the tools I should have in my bag now that I'm getting to a point in my game when i'm starting to need more options to improve myself more quickly.

New discs usually only help me understand why the ones I already have are sufficient.

Thus, getting new discs does not necessarily improve your bag, but rather let you learn something about discs in general. If you haven't thrown Teebirds or Eagles, I'd suggest to give them a try. I'd suggest you drop the light DX Leo, as you already plan to do, and add a Teebird. Then, at your stage (which is similar to mine), drop one or two of your three fast drivers. I don't think you really need them. Rather work with your fairway drivers. One or two Teebirds or Eagles will give you a lot to work with.

I have tried a handful of drivers, but each time came back to my DX Teebird + Champ Teebird combo. (Eagles would be just as good, I think.) The first disc that seems to add something to my drivers section is the Trespass (speed 12, Destroyer-like). It is able to provide more distance, but I'm not as consistent with it yet. Hence, on the course, I rather use the trusty Teebirds, which I can control and fly nearly as far. (Consistency and placement are more important than raw distance.)

Today on a shorter course, I played with a Z Wasp and a D-Line P2 only and scored about as good as with my full ten-disc-bag. On a longer course, one fairway driver would have provided that additional distance. With wind or doglegs one overstable disc would have provided that fade. And suddenly, we've built a garubag.

Anyway, your bag looks quite good. I like it as a basis. It is nice and small. Drop two distance drivers and the light Leo and add two Teebirds or Eagles and you have a great bag, for almost every situation you'll encounter on courses ... and you'll have all you need to advance your disc golf game.

 

[Casey 1988]

Orc is going to be closer to a slower Destroyer.

Missing and not on list is a ROC like flight disc, I use the champion 3 for that purpose 2 at 176 grams. Others use a Shark but those fly too slow for a true midrange flight, maybe if the Star or G Star were not so domed then again I could use a DX Shark cycle, cheaper in the long run to use 2 Champion Shark 3.

 

[SD86]

I like the idea of just bumping up by 1 speed to start, but I'm just worried about having too much overlap to my Star Leo. Not sure how different the Leo 3 is compared to my existing Leo or a Teebird which I keep hearing that I need to have one.

I understand your point about overlap. My thought was to replace the DX Leo with a Leo3 (champion being more stable) and see how it works with your Star Leo and all. I found I like the Leo3 over my Leos, and the Leo3 grew on me vis-a-vis my TLs, FDs, and (especially) my Rivers.

As to the Teebird, it's a DG ritual to try a Teebird. I have a couple of F2 Star Teebirds, a Champ Teebird Plus Mold (which I like), and a DX Teebird which flies like my Star TLs. So sure, try out a Teebird.

 

[SaROCaM]

If you haven't yet, read these:

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32790

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/choosingadisc.shtml


If you haven't yet, complete this drill:

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=595&sid=6ac67272237a80f1b76809ca23204c59

Between what you have now, and the discs you listed from your research, you should be able to put together a pretty good bag.

 

[ian.w]

Try a Dx teebird. It might end up being one of your longest discs.

 

[BrotherDave]

The Beast, Tern and Destroyer are almost assuredly too fast for you right now. If you need to throw a Tern with anny to get an S-curve out of it, that's a tell-tale sign. The biggest gap in your bag is a straight to fade FW driver, something a few notches more overstable than your Star Leo. Teebirds and Eagles are the classic go-tos for this but choices abound. Less is usually more when you're starting out b/c it forces you to throw lines with discs instead of throwing discs for lines. But a really OS disc is a handy tool to have in the bag so en lieu of the Destroyer for fighting winds, get a slower and properly OS disc (instead of seeming OS b/c it's faster than you can get up to speed) like a Banshee, Resistor, xxx, or Firebird.

 

[Casey 1988]

The Beast, Tern and Destroyer are almost assuredly too fast for you right now. If you need to throw a Tern with anny to get an S-curve out of it, that's a tell-tale sign. The biggest gap in your bag is a straight to fade FW driver, something a few notches more overstable than your Star Leo. Teebirds and Eagles are the classic go-tos for this but choices abound. Less is usually more when you're starting out b/c it forces you to throw lines with discs instead of throwing discs for lines. But a really OS disc is a handy tool to have in the bag so en lieu of the Destroyer for fighting winds, get a slower and properly OS disc (instead of seeming OS b/c it's faster than you can get up to speed) like a Banshee, Resistor, xxx, or Firebird.

The Viper is the most overstable driver that Innova makes and is the same speed as the leopard if you go the same speed. I would have said Whippet in the past but the True Whippet is not made by Innova anymore. Discraft's Undertaker from its numbers is another good choice for a wind fighter flies between a Teebird and Firebird from what others have bin saying about the disc.

 

[Baseballadp]

Roc3, teebird, and Valkyrie in whatever plastic you like. Ditch beast for thunderbird? Firebird for winds as that is more your arm speed

 

[SilentExodus04]

Roc3, teebird, and Valkyrie in whatever plastic you like. Ditch beast for thunderbird? Firebird for winds as that is more your arm speed

How different is the Beast compared to the Valk? I have a DX Valk that I've tried and it has very similar charactaristics and the exact same drawback i don't like about the beast, if it turns over it doesn't like to come back and I like that reliable finish so I'm tending to stay away from the -2/2 type discs, but maybe that's just me being uneducated about it. A -2/2 technically wants to be thrown flat to go straight, so an anni would make sense for it to go to the right and not want to come back, right?

 

[SilentExodus04]

If you haven't yet, complete this drill:

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=595&sid=6ac67272237a80f1b76809ca23204c59

Between what you have now, and the discs you listed from your research, you should be able to put together a pretty good bag.

This drill is great! It taught me that I really suck at line shaping with my disks and I really only throw two shots right now. I primarily have only thrown S-Curve, and straight flight. I seem to have an issue throwing a sweeping hyzer, and definitely the turnover. My sweeping hyzers i just tend to aim more to the right and they end up going straight that direction, then fading at the end of the flight. I can't seem to figure out how to get a 'sweeping hyzer' unless I just don't know what to do. If you have any examples of how to properly throw a sweeping hyzer let me know. The pictures in that link are dead.

Every time I tried to throw a turnover shot, it would go sky high and hardcore nose up and stall out without getting me what I want. The only disc I can reliably turn over were the understable ones that I could hyzer flip. Anything I had to throw an anni line on it went sky high and nose up.

Oh btw, I used these for the drill:
1) Main Straight Driver - Star Leo
2) Most Overstable Disc - Star Destroyer
3) Most Understable Disc - DX 150g Leo
4) Main Midrange Disc - Star Mako3
5) Main Putt & Approach Disc - Star Aviar

 

[SD86]

How different is the Beast compared to the Valk? I have a DX Valk that I've tried and it has very similar charactaristics and the exact same drawback i don't like about the beast, if it turns over it doesn't like to come back and I like that reliable finish so I'm tending to stay away from the -2/2 type discs, but maybe that's just me being uneducated about it. A -2/2 technically wants to be thrown flat to go straight, so an anni would make sense for it to go to the right and not want to come back, right?

DX Valks tend to wear in and get flippy over time and use. The answer is to get one in more durable premium plastic, which will hold its pattern longer. I have found that my (F2) Champ Valk is not more overstable than my (rather beefy) Star Valks, so either plastic should be fine. The Valk comes in just about every possible plastic, so you have many good choices.

On to the Beast. My Star Beast-L isn't flippy at all, and Beast-Xs are generally more stable than the Beast-Ls.

TL; DR: Depending on plastic and wear, a specific Beast disc and a specific Valkyrie disc might be very similar, or be disparate enough to not be redundant...

 

[Twmccoy]

I think your bag could use a Roc3 or something. You only have 1 mid in there and its a straight-flippy one. the Roc3 would hold up better in headwinds and be more consistent overall.

I agree with ditching the 150 DX Leopard. You seem to throw hard/far enough that a light leopard would be pretty useless.

I'd make room in the bag for a star or champion Teebird. Absolute workhorse of a fairway driver. So many uses.

One other disc you might take a long look at is a Thunderbird. Same flight as a Teebird, but better glide and faster/longer.

As for the Beast, throw it some more and determine if you like it. If not, try an Orc. Similar to a Beast, but it has a sharper late fade. The Beast X is a great mold. The Beast L not so much.

 

[SilentExodus04]

Ended up picking up these new beauties today and taking them to the practice field for some experimentation from your guys recommendations.

My bag which is now:
172 Star Aviar
172 R-Pro Aviar
176 Star Mako3
176 Star Roc3 (NEW - Love this one, perfect compliment to my Mako3 for a more stable mid)
165 Star Leopard
171 Star Eagle (NEW - This thing flies far, goes as far or farther than my leopard and was getting a nice hyzer flip out of it)
163 G-Star Teebird (NEW - They didn't have a regular star version in a color and weight i liked, and I'd been wanting to try G* out anyway. I didn't realize it was only 163 until after I got it, woulda liked 165+ but this thing flies great. Just a bit more straight than my eagle and goes just as far if not farther. Definitely the longest disc I can throw now.)
168 Star Thunderbird (NEW - When I get a good rip this thing soars and always comes back at the end, want to see how it holds up to some wind. Great for hyzer shots.)
175 Star Firebird (NEW - It is flat and beefy, really hyzer spikes a lot even when thrown flat with my power. Good replacement for my old destroyer for wind/big hyzer shots that I want to really crank on)

Realized that the step up to 7 really helped get me some more distance and that I'm probably going to be ready to throw the 9s here soon, at least for certain shapes of holes I want to shoot with them. Probably will step up to them as a main driver within the year though with the way I'm going. Definitely don't feel like I need anything more than speed 9 though in my bag.

Really think this bag is going to last me a while and be a winner. Big shout out to the Roc3 suggestion, that disc flies great!

 

[SaROCaM]

Really think this bag is going to last me a while and be a winner.

That lineup should have you covered for a while. As for the drill, keep working on it and you'll unlock a lot of knowledge and experience. There are a lot of articles and videos on how to throw various shots, but it really comes down to your footwork/stance, posture, and angles/planes (grip, backswing, swing, follow-through.) There are some other drills in that old archived forum too. One of the best things you can do for your game is to learn how to throw putters. They can do a lot of work, and you'll add a lot to your game once you get to the point where you can play courses with just putters.

 

[ThomasOrion]

Hey all. Looking to figure out how to improve my disc selection to be more right for my current level. I'm throwing about 250 on a hyzer line and about 300 on a flex or hyzer flip line if I get the right release and depending on disc, still in my first year of throwing. I can get to about 350 if I'm lucky.

My most consistent disc: Star Leopard.
My best distance: Star Tern

Here's what i currently bag and how they throw for me:
172 Star Aviar (putt)
172 R-Pro Aviar (approach, hills)
176 Star Mako3 (mid)
150 Dx Leopard (very understable now, too light to be consistent, want to replace)
165 Star Leopard (pretty stable version of my dx leo, good hyzer flip to flat with my power)
165 Champ Beast (haven't figured out if I like this or not, when i release it anni it doesn't want to fade back consistently, and I can't hyzer flip it yet)
168 Star Tern (If I can get a flat/anni throw with no headwind this will S out nice)
161 Star Destroyer (I use this whenever there are high winds or I must have good fade back at the end)

I've been researching discs, especially the ones pros like to use, and I'm finding a trend of a lot of people wanting to throw discs with the same numbers as a destroyer for the turn and fade (-1, 3) for a consistent reliable flight. That brought me to look at the following discs below.

S7: Teebird (a straight shot that I don't really have in my bag right now)
S7: Leopard 3 (longer version of my star leo perhaps?)
S7: Eagle (same stability numbers as destroyer, wraith, orc)

S9: Firebird (Why do people like glow ones?)
S9: Thunderbird (less stable than firebird, kinda like orc.)
S10: Champion/Star Orc?
S11: Star Wraith (Baby destroyer)

I've also been wanting to replace my DX leo with a better understable disc that will last because the only reason my dx leo is so understable is because it's tore up. It tends to flip too soon for me so I can only use it on short holes that go to the right at the end.

S9: roadrunner (roller/extra turnover)
S9: sidewinder (roller/extra turnover, but 1 less than roadrunner)

As you can see, I've tried to do the research but AHHH there are so many discs to try and so many different plastics and weights. Not to mention I know a disc isn't going to make me better overnight, but I feel like I'm missing some of the tools I should have in my bag now that I'm getting to a point in my game when i'm starting to need more options to improve myself more quickly. I find myself reaching for the Tern and Destroyer, and on days when I'm feeling great they fly great, but if I have an off day they just suck and the star leo would have been the more consistent choice overall.

From the looks of it you have a nice setup for a newbie. Just a couple things I'd ask - only mid is a Mako3 which is a great choice for all around use - do you get it to turn over easily if you need to? If not, I'd recommend a Prodigy M4 - it feels very similar to a Mako3 but is more understable, maybe get a weight in the 165-169 range to turn over easier - its nice to have an US mid to get easy turns. You have a couple putters and honestly you cant go wrong with that and I'm sure you've got it covered but if you want a great overall approach disc that's really straight I recommend the Axiom Proxy - just a super comfortable smooth throwing putter.

Fairway If you get a teebird it will likely be fairly OS and that's fine, you have the leopards cover the understable and straight shots, so a teebird is a good step and will be useful - don't think you need a firebird, its faster and really OS - its a well liked disc and glow plastic is usually more OS, but the color glows are popular just because of the look and the Nate Sexton discs, they are more special or anything

Driver - I recommend checking out some speed 8-10 drivers, I think the Tern and Destroyer are plenty for the wider rims. Roadrunner is a great disc and you'll likely get some good throws that can S shape - Then next step I'd do Valkyrie (or even sidewinder but its close to a RR) Roadrunner is 9/5/-4/1 (but heavier stars or champs are more like 9/5/-2.5/1.5) and Valkyrie is 9/4/-2/2 (but again heavier new star or champs are more 9/4/-1/2)
I will also recommend an MVP Volt as a control fairway driver - try a Neutron or Plasma Volt as it is more understable and will get you nice control distance - 8/5/-1/2 all around a great disc

then also speed 10's Axiom VIRUS for really understable, or an INSANITY for slightly understable - and the MVP Inertia for all around distance - I gave a friend of mine (who has played for years but still a newbie) my inertia and he loved it and gave him the best distance. Its not flippy but not overstable - its all around a great driver. To me the MVP/Axiom discs are just thinner faster than the Innova speed 9 control drivers. Either will work, just up to your preference

then just have 1 really OS disc, a MVP Resistor, Innova Firebird, XXX, anything really that's between speed 6-10 that's really OS - you can use that for any huge cut shot - other than that just having a couple stabilities in a few speed categories should do well. Also make sure to have a understable short range disc you know you can get to turn over and ride and a control driver that can do the same.....sorry for the novel.
_____________
In summary::::::
Any true understable midrange: there are so many any will do - i like the M4 tho
Maybe a more OS midrange - MD3, Roc3, Wasp - they are OS but not CRAZY OS, maybe not necessary
Grab a Teebird for a OS fairway disc - complaments the Leopards well.
Add in control drivers (which may take over primary driving on most holes) Roadrunner (for understable) Valkyrie (for straight to hyzer)
or Axiom Insanity or Virus (for understable) or MVP Inertia for all around drives
and snag 1 pretty Overstable disc - anything will do. But can't go wrong with a firebird or MVP Resistor

 

[SilentExodus04]

Got to go out and play a round with my buddies yesterday, and of course it was SUPER windy. Made for an entertaining round, and a lot of disc experimentation. We all ended up throwing 2 drives off the tee so we could take the best of the two, which helped me figure out my new discs quite nicely.

Headwinds: I was throwing my Thunderbird almost exclusively. This thing is killer in the wind for me. Very consistent flight regardless of headwind and was my most consistent wind disc. Firebird is still too OS for me apparently, since it was always shorter and dumpy fade.

Tailwinds: I was throwing my Eagle and Teebird for most of these shots and getting huge distance if I force it to turn over. Love these discs for tailwind/no wind situations, they fly far and great.

Roc3 - Still trying to figure out when it's going to go straight and when it wants to fade. I had some shots fade out on me when I didn't want, and some stay straight when I didn't want. All in all, this disc is going to be sweet once I figure it out.

I beat my friends by at least 6 strokes on the course, even through the nasty wind! I'd like to thank all of you for helping me get a sweet bag and one that I can finally use to combat these Colorado winds that are just nasty this time of year, especially being near the front range!