Why is it such a problem with more folks making money off something they love. Paul McBeth said in an interview he plays DG like a job, 6-8 hrs a day practicing. Gonna be tough to compete with that hence being a 3x world champ. As for courses being more crowded, so what. more people know about the sport more communities support the sport, more people on courses. Discs will get more expensive just like everything else. As for this ruining regular joes chances of being competitive. That is a weird statement. To be competitive means to progress. Not stay the same and hope all around you continue to suck as well. if you want to be competitive be competitive and devote the time it takes to be competitive.
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How do you think the National Tour would work best?
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Why is it such a problem with more folks making money off something they love. Paul McBeth said in an interview he plays DG like a job, 6-8 hrs a day practicing. Gonna be tough to compete with that hence being a 3x world champ. As for courses being more crowded, so what. more people know about the sport more communities support the sport, more people on courses. Discs will get more expensive just like everything else. As for this ruining regular joes chances of being competitive. That is a weird statement. To be competitive means to progress. Not stay the same and hope all around you continue to suck as well. if you want to be competitive be competitive and devote the time it takes to be competitive.
onemilemore
* Ace Member *
Oh man I have an unpublished article on this from like two years ago that I am itching to share. Might need to dust it off...
But, like the OP said, if it is a tour, it needs to run like one. The dates and locations need to be organized like a band would organize a tour. Instead of blind darts, some legit planning and cooperation among TDs to make the tour run from point A to B would be huge.
But, like the OP said, if it is a tour, it needs to run like one. The dates and locations need to be organized like a band would organize a tour. Instead of blind darts, some legit planning and cooperation among TDs to make the tour run from point A to B would be huge.
Star Shark
* Ace Member *
Quite simple. We don't own our courses, so we can't say if it will be available that same weekend next year. Sorry, we had to move weekends because there's cub scout camp or a cross country race going through the park that weekend.
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I like the idea of regional qualifiers, but again, it comes down to how many regions and where you draw the boundaries. Some sparsely populated regions are undoubtedly going to be bigger than others are require more miles on the car to compete. People who are on the border between regions and have to commit to one, (whereas now they can get their points wherever they want) might not like that setup either.
My vision is: a season/tour/series over 4-6 months; 10-20 events organized by a new pro only association and run in cooperation with local veteran td's; supported with pooled sponsor funds primarily from disc manufactures, a collection of other national sponsors, and some regional sponsors to meet high minimum deep payouts that are consistent at each event; mandatory attendance by elite players at 75% of these events (required by sponsors) and open to anyone "qualified" after that in open only format (mpo,fpo) till filled; use a mix of the hardest highest rated courses annually; local clinics, other lead up activities, and fly mart (player participation required by sponsors); player profiles/stats, live coverage and professional marketing.
I like what is happening in the ultimate world. Two pro leagues were formed by different entrepreneurs to create a more "sustainable and marketable" alternative for elite players than what the mother organization has historically offered. I think forming an elite player focused association, league, or union is the first thing that needs to happen before any change will occur.
I like what is happening in the ultimate world. Two pro leagues were formed by different entrepreneurs to create a more "sustainable and marketable" alternative for elite players than what the mother organization has historically offered. I think forming an elite player focused association, league, or union is the first thing that needs to happen before any change will occur.
If there is more selectivity about the courses used for elite competition and annual commitments, I think this could be avoided.
TruthHurts
Bogey Member
What I think a lot of those immersed in disc golf don't realize, is that the top professionals in the world ARE the regular Joes I was referring to. They're not top tier athletes. Right now, a person who is not devoid of athleticism can devote time(6-8 hours a day), and become an elite player(by current standards). To hammer home the point further, line up the 5 best disc golfers next to each other, and have passerbys try to guess what they do for a living, or have in common. The words athlete, or sportsman will not be mentioned.
I was playing with a guy at a tournament a couple years ago who is 1000 rated, sponsored, and does a little touring. He is a pretty big guy, and came from a sports background. He told me he got into disc golf because he was tired of wasting money on ball golf where it cost too much money, and the competition was too stacked. He said, "why should I pay to play something I can't win at, when I can get paid to play disc golf?" It's a logical decision, and can't blame the guy for making it. Ben Askren played in his very limited free time as a hobby, and was nearly 1000 rated at one point.
Now, imagine if the top disc golfer in the world is bringing in $300k a year. You don't think that's going to inspire real athletes to compete? Baseball players struggling to make it in a farm league, with no real guaranteed future in sight could easily make the jump. Same with other athletes from feeder leagues for popular sports. Sure, it would be fun to watch, but the guys built like Ally McBeal are not going to be competitive anymore.
The perpetual dorks that make up disc golf will be pushed out of it, and it will be less inviting to new players. All of that is fine if you want to turn it into a spectator sport. I personally would like to watch a guy who could hit a 500' homerun, or throw a 100mph fastball obliterate the distance record, but I like the fact that its not profitable enough where all courses are pay to play.
I don't think people realize the only reason the pros are having success is because nobody else cares about the sport. Make it profitable, and all the things that make disc golf great are gone.
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I'd say the top guys in the PGDA are comparable athletic wise to the PGA tour players. Bubba Watson = Simon Lizotte.
gdub58
Birdie Member
Ridiculous. This hasn't happened in ball golf, why would you assume that it would happen in disc golf? There are some PGA pros that look like they could play other sports, and others who look nothing like a professional athlete.
Natural athletes excel at sports where speed, size, and reaction time are core competencies. Disc golf is not one of them. This is not to say that athletic ability can't accelerate the learning process, but it take more than that to be at an elite level.
Sure, if disc golf was mainstream and widely popular, you would have 100 guys rated 1030 and up playing what would likely be an exemption-based tour. Any one of these exempt tour players could win an event if they have an especially good week, just as you have in ball golf today. No "local pros" would even play in those events unless they qualified in some play-in round or via a sponsor's exemption.
Would you rather have that or today's world where only a handful of players are competitive, playing amongst a bunch of nobodies who struggle to cash in their local C-tier?
Now, that scenario is extremely unlikely to occur, for reasons that have been discussed ad nauseam on this forum. But to say that virtually any decent athlete could dominate on the disc golf tour if they were properly motivated and put the time in is just foolish...
I'm already vastly inferior to the current top players, and I'm not being pushed out. Adding a layer of even better athletes on top wouldn't affect me, at all.
Nor has it seemed to happen in any other sport that comes readily to mind. It might affect who is at the top, but not anyone below that.
TruthHurts
Bogey Member
Fair enough, I would agree that the body types are similar. While I agree that a lot of the mechanics of a golf swing are equatable to a disc golf swing, there is a more forgiving margin for error in a disc golf throw, which allows for athleticism to still provide a significant advantage.
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Have you seen how athletic Simon is?
https://instagram.com/p/v94z10CfYo/?modal=true
https://instagram.com/p/y3Hm-Nifc0/?modal=true
TruthHurts
Bogey Member
Disc golf is not comparable to any other sports in either its origins, or player demographics. Just in the past 5 years, how many more tournaments are there? Clubs commandeering courses for organized tag rounds that involve 40+ people? The more disc golf revolves around competition, the more tournaments, tag rounds, and organized play there will be.
How many casual players are turned away from a course because they're holding tournaments, or some other organized event that day? The more the game revolves around competition, and money for competing, the less room there is for casual players. I see more people playing on the courses in my area all the time, but what I don't see is a proportional increase in people doing course maintenance.
Ultimately I don't see money ever becoming a real issue. Disc golf will never get to the point where touring pros are winning large sums of it at multiple tournaments. The point I'm trying to make is that primarily what I see is people who couldn't make it onto the varsity baseball or football team in high school, pushing to make their sport more socially acceptable, or profitable, without realizing that were the sport to grow to the level of the more popular sports, they would be in the bleachers paying to watch, not competing for a cut of the money, or glory.
TruthHurts
Bogey Member
Juggling, and backflips on a trampoline aren't exactly pushing the boundaries of athletic achievement. I'm not saying he's devoid of athleticism, but it's not the defining trait I would choose to describe him by.
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I suppose Avery, Doss, and Big Jerm are more "athletic" by your metric. You sound like the coaches that wouldn't let Barry Sanders play RB.
Being smooth, having rhythm, flexibility, grip strength, balance and hand-eye coordination are athletic skills.
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Here's what Truthhurts arguments sound like to me...
The PGA Tour shouldn't grow to have larger purses than what Arnie and Jack were winning in the 60s. Because if it does, we'll see elite athletes like Phil Mickelson winning more in a year than they did in their careers. Tragic is what that would be...Arnie and Jack pushed out of contention not by the fact that they're past their primes, but because the money has brought in new and better athletes who also happen to be 20-30-40 years younger than they are.
Bottom line is it's always going to be the next generation that benefits from the improvements made by the prior generations. As much as they might like it to be, McBeth and Wysocki aren't the guys who will reap the benefits of the mythical "more money, bigger tour" dream. They (and we) are going to age out of the "prime" age to compete before we see big money on the "tour", not be shunted aside by carpetbagging "elite" athletes.
The PGA Tour shouldn't grow to have larger purses than what Arnie and Jack were winning in the 60s. Because if it does, we'll see elite athletes like Phil Mickelson winning more in a year than they did in their careers. Tragic is what that would be...Arnie and Jack pushed out of contention not by the fact that they're past their primes, but because the money has brought in new and better athletes who also happen to be 20-30-40 years younger than they are.
Bottom line is it's always going to be the next generation that benefits from the improvements made by the prior generations. As much as they might like it to be, McBeth and Wysocki aren't the guys who will reap the benefits of the mythical "more money, bigger tour" dream. They (and we) are going to age out of the "prime" age to compete before we see big money on the "tour", not be shunted aside by carpetbagging "elite" athletes.
TruthHurts
Bogey Member
I suppose Avery, Doss, and Big Jerm are more "athletic" by your metric. You sound like the coaches that wouldn't let Barry Sanders play RB.
Being smooth, having rhythm, flexibility, grip strength, balance and hand-eye coordination are athletic skills.
No, my contention is that outside of disc golf, none of these guys would be even mid-tier athletes in any professional sport, PERIOD. If you believe otherwise, you're completely, and utterly delusional. Go to even a division 3 school, and have a look at their non-starting baseball players, football players, etc. These guys are strong, fast, flexible, and have well above-average hand-eye coordination, but they're nobodies in the sports world.
Barry Sanders ran a 4.38 40 in cut-off jeans. There's a dramatic difference between Barry Sanders, and a guy built like Grover from Sesame Street. Get real.
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That wasn't your contention at all. You said these other "athletes" would come into disc golf and smash every record.
Grover can throw far
Back to the OP
The dream is galleries for events
Can anyone run some attendence figures for PGA majors and maybe run of the mill PGA events?
Back to the OP
The dream is galleries for events
Can anyone run some attendence figures for PGA majors and maybe run of the mill PGA events?
onemilemore
* Ace Member *
I think there is an issue with comparing PGA galleries to what some might want disc golf events to be.
I would argue that in golf, the gap between Average Weekend Golfer and Tiger Woods or Phil Mickelson is vastly larger than that same gap in disc golf from Average Weekend Frolfer to Paul McBeth or Ricky Wysocki. So, people lining up to see PGA events are truly seeing players they will never be able to touch, whereas disc golfers can go out, improve, and feasibly play on the same card as the top pros. There's an accessibility factor here at play that golf has and disc golf does not at this point.
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