How to handle this OB?

[biscoe]

which begs the question- if relief area is technically inbounds then how can a disc be played from a lie based on "last place inbounds"? Verbiage in 806.02.D would be better if it were "spot where disc entered out-of-bounds" if the Relief Area verbiage is going to say it is "played as an out-of-bounds area".

 

[davetherocketguy]

Seems like the issue here isn't so much about OB or not but a rules option that prevents players from having to take a stance in the hedge. Drop zone for OB doesn't do that by itself for throws landing inbounds in the hedge. Choosing a rule that includes casual relief from hedge or extended relief from pavement would appear to be better options.

That exactly.

806.04 Relief Area
A. A relief area is an area designated by the Director from which a disc may not be played, or any in-bounds area that players are prohibited by law from entering. A relief area is played as an out-of-bounds area with the exception that no penalty throw is assessed to a player whose disc comes to rest in a relief area.

Call it a relief area next to the OB and it doesn't matter if the new lie is closer to the basket.

But treating it as OB means moving the disc further away from the basket in the line of play which here will result in a stance violation with the player throwing from OB. The more this is discussed just painting a line around the hedges and making them OB seems to be the best option.

Not sure I want to define the pavement as a hazard since the parks were a little specific on their requests on how play was to be handled and throws from or over the pavement to be discouraged. These rather specific requests came to bear when this particular course was redesigned this past September.

Sorry if I seem obtuse on some of this stuff - I'm a little new to the whole TD thing...just want to make absolutely sure I have my ducks in a row prior to doing a PDGA tourney.

 

[krupicka]

Treating it as OB does not mean moving the disc further away. It means treating it as an out-of-bounds area for all intents and purposes except there is no penalty throw added. The next lie is exactly as if that area was OB which generally means play it from where it was last inbounds and not in a relief area or OB area.

 

[JC17393]

Not sure I want to define the pavement as a hazard since the parks were a little specific on their requests on how play was to be handled and throws from or over the pavement to be discouraged. These rather specific requests came to bear when this particular course was redesigned this past September.

If the park doesn't want players throwing from/over the road, then you should not do anything that would allow/encourage players to play from the road (e.g. hazard or making it inbounds in general).

In an earlier post, you mention that the favored route for RHBH is the high hyzer over the road. Sounds like that's something the park folks wouldn't like if they saw it, so if you can do anything that would dissuade that route, it might be for the better. Making the hedge OB with the road so that one would have to carry over the road and the hedge might be just enough dissuasion for that purpose.

You may get grumbles from the players who take that route and land in the pictured location or the hedge, but too bad for them. As a TD/steward of the course, you have to walk the fine line between keeping players happy and keeping the park happy. I think in this particular case, you gotta lean toward the park folks (even if they haven't actually expressed a specific concern). Players can adjust.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Yea if the park doesn't want people to throw over that road to begin with, then I think you need to make a mando to force players not to do it. If not permanent, then at least for the event. If someone from the park comes out and sees 50+ people throwing giant hyzers out over that road, you may have more problems than where to place a drop zone...

 

[mrtho]

Yea if the park doesn't want people to throw over that road to begin with, then I think you need to make a mando to force players not to do it. If not permanent, then at least for the event. If someone from the park comes out and sees 50+ people throwing giant hyzers out over that road, you may have more problems than where to place a drop zone...

Looking at the picture it seems like anyone who can throw a hyzer will float one out over the road. There is no way to go left of the giant tree that blocks the middle of the fairway from the tree line all the way to longest part of the hedge.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Dave, what course is this?

 

[mrtho]

I would Mark a box around the hedge and call it OB. If someone goes OB there force them to use a DZ under the giant tree near the hedge. Don't make the DZ too far under the tree so that it is absolutely punishing but do put it just far enough under there to make them stop and consider their next shot.

This makes it a risk/reward hole. Hyzer it and succeed good things happen. Hyzer it and fail bad things happen. Or you can safely lay up under the tree hopefully just past the DZ

 

[davetherocketguy]

Dave, what course is this?

Sand Ridge DGC

 

[brutalbrutus]

Coincidence that this is the only course pic? lol...

Looking at the picture it seems like anyone who can throw a hyzer will float one out over the road. There is no way to go left of the giant tree that blocks the middle of the fairway from the tree line all the way to longest part of the hedge.

There's plenty of room under that tree if he wanted to install a temp mando. You place a pole, or whatever, right in the front corner of the first hedge nearest the road. That way you could even throw a power flex high hugging the tree if you wanted to.

 

[davetherocketguy]

Coincidence that this is the only course pic? lol...

Hahaha...Yeah well, I only put up one because I want to wait until the permanent tees are (hopefully) installed this spring along with permanent signage. There is signage up now but its just hastily made laminated maps stapled to 4x4's. That pic was taken long before I wondered about the OB situation here.

 

[Jimb]

Hey, there are two cars in that picture.

 

[davetherocketguy]

And honestly, that's the only time I've seen someone parked down there other than vehicles from folks working on the front nine.

 

[roblee]

What is the vehicle situation on Mothers Day, Easter, 4th of July, Tournament Day? Designing to throw over a road insures conflict. Conflict=DG loses.

 

[araytx]

Here is my suggestion. We have a similar situation with a wooden fence on hole #1 at Veterans Park in Arlington, TX, and this is how we play it as a Special Condition on that hole:

Any throws coming to rest beyond or within 1 meter of the wooden fence (whether inbounds or out-of-bounds) are relocated up to one meter from and perpendicular to the wooden fence.​

All you have to do is substitute "hedges" for "wooden fence," leave everything else the same and call it a day. Doesn't even require waiver.

 

[fubu]

If I land there I'm throwing it from there, albeit from a standstill due the risk of stepping OB during a run-up.
As to your problem, I think this is your best Sanctioned Event solution.

Yea if the park doesn't want people to throw over that road to begin with, then I think you need to make a mando to force players not to do it.

If that's unpalatable, I think your next best option is the extension of the OB line to include the hedges. This is great for risk/reward play, however it encourages players to throw in a direction the park doesn't want you to throw (but it could work for league/casual play with fewer players throwing that way and less attention from the park as compared to a tournament).

jm2¢

 

[MattS]

As someone who plays this course fairly frequently, I believe that the best solution is to make the hedge OB.

Right now, the risk-reward of carrying over the OB road is heavily slanted towards the reward. You have to make a really bad shot for an over-stable driver to not skip back into the hedge. If the hedge is OB, players who take the hyzer route will be forced to make a decent shot and keep the disc out of the road.

I really hope that a Mando isn't necessary, because the left line is very luck based and interferes with hole 18.

 

[sjberry2017]

Here is my suggestion. We have a similar situation with a wooden fence on hole #1 at Veterans Park in Arlington, TX, and this is how we play it as a Special Condition on that hole:

Any throws coming to rest beyond or within 1 meter of the wooden fence (whether inbounds or out-of-bounds) are relocated up to one meter from and perpendicular to the wooden fence.​

All you have to do is substitute "hedges" for "wooden fence," leave everything else the same and call it a day. Doesn't even require waiver.

If you have the other side of the fence as OB, then any throw within 1 m of the fence gets the 1 m relief, regardless of it being closer to the basket or not, no special declarations required.

Rule 802.03D

If the position of the thrown disc is in-bounds but within one meter of an out-of-bounds line, the lie may be marked by placing a mini marker disc on the playing surface at any point on a one-meter line that extends perpendicularly from the nearest point on the out-of-bounds line and passes through the center of the thrown disc, even if the direction takes the lie closer to the target. For the purpose of marking the lie, the out-of-bounds line represents a vertical plane.

 

[araytx]

If you have the other side of the fence as OB, then any throw within 1 m of the fence gets the 1 m relief, regardless of it being closer to the basket or not, no special declarations required.

Rule 802.03D

Correct. But the issue is that it's not OB. In our case the wooden fence is very much like the hedges in the OP's pictures. Our wooden fence is about a meter and a half on the grass (which we call inbounds) and it is not a straight line. So we still have the curb boundary to the grass as the OB line, but if you're safe anywhere in there, you take up to 1 meter relief from the wooden fence, as a special condition. Similarly, if you go OB anywhere over there, you also take up to 1 meter relief from the wooden fence.

 

[davetherocketguy]

Ok...time to update this thread. We've had two tourneys here and numerous league rounds and what we settled on and what seems to work the best is just to make the hedges OB. In fact, for one tourney this summer I went so far as to mark a line about 1' outside of the hedge boundaries and said that the line itself is OB. Didn't have a single issue. Everyone seemed to handle the situation appropriately. I also found that taking a second to explain to the players the why for the OB went a long ways for people to understand it.

-Dave