I need a lid...

[Crosseyed0811]

Barry Schultz was talking the other day at the USDGC about how lots of players today throw lots of overstable plastic for them and don't really know how a disc is supposed to fly. He talked about playing since 1980 and such helped guys like him and Kenny play the way they do. That got me thinking and I wonder how much I could learn from playing some of the shorter courses around here with a lid. I could just go buy a frisbee but I was wondering about some of the current production discs. What would be the best disc to pick up for this experiment? Innova Sonic? I know the discraft Rattler has a good lid rep as well. I don't think the Birdie or Polecat is what I'm looking for. Anything else I'm not thinking of?

 

[DiscGolfTeeSigns.com]

From my experience with a Zephyr I think it'd be a good tweener lid - golf disc. You can learn lid stuff from it at golf speeds. I find catch / Ult type stuff is great with a lid. Trying to tone the golf outta your throw enough to play golf with a lid is a little distracting.

Lid stuff with lid = $$$
Golf stuff with lid = weird
Lid stuff with hybrid = $$$

Maybe Zephyr / Sonic / Rattler for a 3-disc

 

[zj10021]

Sonic is an underrated beast of a disc

 

[keltik1]

don't discount the Polecat. It is also a madman.

 

[Crosseyed0811]

Wasn't sure if the polecat would be QUITE as flippy as I would want, and not sure I like how it feels in the hand. I also have a superhero I could throw I guess...

 

[keltik1]

the Polecat goes where you throw it. if you twerk it, it twerks. if you hyzer it, it hyzers. it doesn't go far. it just goes where you throw it.

 

[kcbill]

i carry three rattlers. outside of the circle they are fantastic discs. 200' in they are as straight as anything.

 

[HeartlessCynic]

Maybe Zephyr / Sonic / Rattler for a 3-disc

Quality recommendation is quality.

 

[ferretdance03]

Leopard is right on. If you're looking to improve your golf game, the amount of time it's going to take to relearn how to throw a lid is going to be counter productive (unless you already have the lid throwing skills). A Zephyr is a great lid/golf hybrid in that it can be gripped and thrown almost the same as any golf putter/mid and you get a lid-esque flight out of it.
A Superstar is a lot of fun to throw, a bit too understable for me to carry on the course, but I love it for warm up catch and breakout games of Guts!
I carry a Sonic in my rig for the touch/anny approach slot and love throwing it for short straight approaches and real quick turning annies. One of the best shots I throw with it is a slow flip up flick that turns and carries left the whole way.

I've used Birdies, Rattlers and Polecats all for extended periods of time. They all require adjusting my grip too much from my usual fork/fan grip that I use on my other putters that they don't make the tourney rig.

 

[dgdave]

Gopher

 

[keltik1]

I will agree with ferretdance that the polecat and rattler do require a slightly different grip. The rattler more so than most which is why I don't carry it. I still like the disc but it grips vastly different than my other discs. The Polecat is better but still can be awkward. I just got a grip Pure and it flies kinda like a Polecat but out to 300 and it grips like a Buzzz. If my Sonic didn't have a hole in it I would maybe carry that one.

so I guess now I should really recommend either the Sonic or the Super Hero (only 135g though). damnit now I want to buy another Sonic.

 

[Crosseyed0811]

I already have the Super Hero so I'll give it a shot, but I also bought a dx wedge and dx stingray the other day to beat into really flippy discs in my bag. Barry talked about how he always kept a really beat up mid in his bag and currently that's a stingray for him since he shattered his old beat up shark before he moved. Maybe these two discs would accomplish the same thing for me?

 

[Widdershins]

Leopard is right on. If you're looking to improve your golf game, the amount of time it's going to take to relearn how to throw a lid is going to be counter productive (unless you already have the lid throwing skills)....

Counterproductive? Not at all. It is like saying there is no reason to teach a kid math and science since they like video games better. Yeah, math and science may be difficult stuff to grasp but don't you want your doctor to know it?

Learning understable flights for putters, mids and drivers is invaluable and well worth the investment.

A lid is just a flippy putter. Take a traditional putter (Magnet, Wizard, Aviar, whatever) and beat it in for multiple years and it will eventually fly like a lid. Or save the time and go straight to a lid (Rattler, as a superb example). It is simply the best disc you can throw within 100 feet. It will fly straight (or gently bend) at slow speeds in a way no overstable disc is capable of. Yes, it takes skill, touch and practice to throw it. When you attain that skill you will be a much better golfer. If you start now in a couple years you will have it. If you avoid it in a decade you will still lack it.

The most valuable discs in my bag are the most broken in putters, mids and drivers. Overstable discs are crude weapons. Understable discs are precise instruments. Both have their place, of course, but the skill quotient is different. A typical amateur knows how to throw a meathook on a spike hyzer. Watch an accomplished Pro gently bend an anhyzer or thread a hyzer-flip down a tunnel. That is real skill.

Disc golf is a life long sport. Honing what you are already good at is just a short term strategy. Focus on the long term and have the patience to make it work.

 

[keltik1]

Overstable discs are crude weapons.

I loled at this.

 

[ferretdance03]

Perhaps I didn't flesh out my thoughts enough, or you didn't read the entire post. Either way, I was meaning the amount of time it would take to learn the grip and throwing mechanics and flight nuances of a true lid, a 175 Ultrastar or the like. I think if you're strictly looking to expand on your golf game (which the OP seemed to be in my understanding) then learning a true lid would be counterproductive. The grip, technique and flights are vastly different from an Ultrastar to a golf disc and (for me at least) going back and forth is more frustrating than what it may be worth.
A lid-like golf disc (Sonic, Rattler, Polecat, Gopher, etc) is a different beast all together.

 

[tmahan]

I think the distinction he may have been trying to make is that you generally propel a golf disc through force, with a lid you have to fly it more. And while there certainly is a learning curve with a lid for those who cut their disc teeth with golf discs there are potential benefits to be gained. Stall anhyzers to get around a sharp corner is one that comes to mind. I learned the chickenwing with a lid, haven't used it much lately but I do have an ace with one (old #4B at Seneca). I like the Superhero, I'd go with it.

 

[Smyith1]

Perhaps I didn't flesh out my thoughts enough, or you didn't read the entire post. Either way, I was meaning the amount of time it would take to learn the grip and throwing mechanics and flight nuances of a true lid, a 175 Ultrastar or the like. I think if you're strictly looking to expand on your golf game (which the OP seemed to be in my understanding) then learning a true lid would be counterproductive. The grip, technique and flights are vastly different from an Ultrastar to a golf disc and (for me at least) going back and forth is more frustrating than what it may be worth.

not true at all. the true lids are great for learning how to throw every golf shot there is. because their so easy to control of just a snap of the wrist you can really spend your time working perfect form and not having to even consider making your arm move fast. it also allows you to learn the subtleties of every shot there is, you can throw everything from spike hyzers to sky anhyzers to tomahawks with a Ultrastar or Dog Disc. It will also teach you some sweet grips you wouldnt think of with a golf disc standardly.

 

[Crosseyed0811]

Leopard is right on. If you're looking to improve your golf game, the amount of time it's going to take to relearn how to throw a lid is going to be counter productive (unless you already have the lid throwing skills)....

Counterproductive? Not at all. It is like saying there is no reason to teach a kid math and science since they like video games better. Yeah, math and science may be difficult stuff to grasp but don't you want your doctor to know it?

Learning understable flights for putters, mids and drivers is invaluable and well worth the investment.

A lid is just a flippy putter. Take a traditional putter (Magnet, Wizard, Aviar, whatever) and beat it in for multiple years and it will eventually fly like a lid. Or save the time and go straight to a lid (Rattler, as a superb example). It is simply the best disc you can throw within 100 feet. It will fly straight (or gently bend) at slow speeds in a way no overstable disc is capable of. Yes, it takes skill, touch and practice to throw it. When you attain that skill you will be a much better golfer. If you start now in a couple years you will have it. If you avoid it in a decade you will still lack it.

The most valuable discs in my bag are the most broken in putters, mids and drivers. Overstable discs are crude weapons. Understable discs are precise instruments. Both have their place, of course, but the skill quotient is different. A typical amateur knows how to throw a meathook on a spike hyzer. Watch an accomplished Pro gently bend an anhyzer or thread a hyzer-flip down a tunnel. That is real skill.

Disc golf is a life long sport. Honing what you are already good at is just a short term strategy. Focus on the long term and have the patience to make it work.

Ahh, should have known you'd show up when the Rattler was mentioned I'll be honest, I told you a while back in another thread (http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22067&start=30) that I was going to pick up a Rattler and give it a shot and I never did. So I'm going to correct that mistake because I am a man of my word. Thanks for affirming some of the things Mr. Schultz seemed to be saying last week at the USDGC.