Champion molds are near perfect far as profiles go, flex of flight plate varies little to none when inspecting a disc to purchase and after hundreds of throws/bashes.
You are likely comparing discs from the same run. Champion will have the same variations as any other plastic.
Possibly to a slightly lesser degree but the same variations will be there. The reason I say it might be to a lesser degree is because I think Innova used the pellets as they receive them from the plastic manufacturer. Star is a blend of Pro and Champ and I think Innova mixes those in-house so accidental or intended variations are more likely to occur.
Star molds are near perfect in white but in yellow, I have found that discs in the 150 class have worbles in flight plates (from three different stores). A bubble on one side or a depression, the yellow in star for 150 class is out for me. White molds look good and I have no problem ordering online without inspecting first.
You will eventually be disappointed. Sorry. There is nothing magical about white, yellow or blue and pink polka dotted discs.
I believe that the profile of a disc is important to maintain uniformity in order for the disc to really carry it's performance and described flight characteristics.
Preaching to the choir, man. Read some of my other posts
.
I've read that Star plastic will change as you use the disc more.
Any disc will change as you use it more. Usually Champ changes the slowest and DX changes the quickest. Use this knowledge to your advantage. Champ usually lasts the longest but that doesn't mean it is always the best choice.
What I feel from my year of regular play is that Star plastic feels "heavier" and throws that way compared to champion. A 150 class seems heavier, not in hand, in flight.
I'm not really sure what you are getting at here. Discs' flight paths are disc shape dependant. If a Champ Valk cooled to the exact same shape as a Star
Valk then they would fly identically. Sometimes the Star Valks will be more overstable than the Champs or vice versa. It just depends on how they cool after they are pulled from the injection mold. Champ is a little more likely to cool into an overstable shape but you will still see examples that disregard this generalization. Dave Dunipace's intentions are to maintain the generalization that Champ is the most overstable so he is influencing process variables to ensure that the Champs will end up in a more overstable shape. But if you know anything about injection molding then you will understand what kind of undertaking this is. Plastic cooling rates are influenced by many factors and most of those are expensive to control. Especially when you are trying to sell individual discs ranging from $7 to $15.
My champions just haven't changed at all, albeit the oldest disc that I've kept in my bag gets irregularly flown/thrown over the six months I've had it. But from what I see, champion does not change yet...
Again, I agree.
Since everyone else has covered your other questions in detail I will try to talk a little more about disc shape.
I mentioned that the plastic cooling rates are affected by many variables. Some of these are simple. Holding times (time the disc is allowed to sit in the mold cavity after all the material has been injected), hold pressure (how much pressure is applied to the mold pieces), holding temperatures (the temps of the mold pieces during the holding process), injection pressure, injection duration, gate geometry ( the size and shape of the hole that the melted plastic is injected through on its way into the mold), and other things like these are easily adjusted to suit your needs.
Humidity and temperature of the injection molding environment are expensive to control. Also the amount of water your plastic pellets have absorbed will affect things. This isn't as difficult to control because drying pellets is simple, but it still adds a step to a process that manufacturers try their best to streamline. Cooling fixtures (specifically shaped bucks that discs can be put onto as soon as they are pulled from their molds) can influence the final shape of a disc but again this adds cost to an already low profit margin.
I'm not trying to bore you with tons of details, I'm just trying to illustrate how involved a process it is to squirt plastic into a mold.
So the best we consumers can do is to go to the store and match our ideal shape to one of the discs on the shelf. If I am trying to match my beloved Teebird then I bring my Teebird with me. I match the
PLH, the nose radius, the wing curvature, the dome radius and dome height. I match as much as I can. Weight is not a huge priority... if the shape is an exact match then 5 or 6 grams difference isn't going to have a huge impact on the flight path. Ideally they would be the exact same weight but I don't stress out about that aspect. The manufacturers' indicated weights are usually off by 3-4 grams anyway.
This method has gotten me great replacements that I have not been disappointed with. The big problem is that the Play It Again Sports (PIAS) near me does not have a huge selection. If I order online then it is a gamble whether I even get something close to what I want.
The color issue:
Many people say that green discs are more overstable than blue, Red Star is better than purple, etc. I feel this is a bunch of hoooey. The plastic manufacturer sends pellets that are 1 color. They used to be 'natural' colored which is an off white color. Disc companies might be buying white pellets now, IDK. To get different colors they pigment the pellets as they are melted. This *should* not affect how the plastic cools. For example: all the red Nukes are more overstable than the yellows (I just made this up FYI). The reason all of this color fly the same is that all the reds were probably made at the same time and from the same batch of material. So naturally you'd expect them to fly similarly. As the day continues and the humidity changes they start using the green pigment. Maybe there is a shift change and you get different workers. Any number of variables could result in this green batch being different from the red batch. So as long as you are considering one particular run you might be able to say that the reds are more overstable than the greens. But a year later when they need to run another batch of Nukes your generalizations might fly out the window. The greens might be more overstable than the reds. So you might need to be more cautious if you are dealing with popular older discs because there are probably 50 different runs of Champ Valks whereas there is probably only 1 run of Goblins. It wouldn't be a stretch to say all red Goblins are
fill in the blank because there was only 1 run of Goblins (I think).
You also mentioned that the 150 class discs are less consistently shaped than the heavier discs. I don't really know what to think about that. I throw all 150 class… putters, mids and drivers. I have probably about 100 150 class discs. But I have only been doing 150 class for about a year and a half so I have a bunch of other discs. I have probably about 350 regular weight discs. I have not realized any differences in consistency between the weights. And I'm pretty anal if you can't tell. Maybe Innova is more reluctant to toss out bad 150 class discs because they know the market is not as strong for them? I'm sure if they are going to spend the time to make less desirable discs then they would like to have a lower percentage of x-outs from that run. You know Innova will sell 5000 x-out Katanas. How long would it take to move 5000 x-out 150g Valks? Much longer. Warehouse space is expensive, you don't want less desirable discs clogging the shelves.
So to make a short story long, I would try to buy all my discs from a local retailer. Especially because you sound similar to me in some ways. I have to see and feel my discs before I buy them. Some online retailers are better about picking out discs with a certain shape. Some are pathetic. If I ask a retailer to send me a "flat Firebird" what are the chances I will get what I want? What is their definition of flat? Will they send me the flattest one they have even if it is still domey? I'm sure they don't want to tell me "we don't have any" and lose a sale… so I only trust myself (or discspeed or maybe one or two others) to pick out my discs.
Ummm… sorry it got so long. If you have any questions……..
