Brychanus
* Ace Member *
Alongside Tattar, Robinson mopped the floor with MPO at Champion's Cup. His form is another case where he has some quirks, but clearly pulls it all together for good effect. I love watching this guy. He has a no-nonsense approach at the tee, and if you're not watching intently you might miss his shot. And his and Tattar's recent success got this formaholic thinking about mechanics and tradeoffs again.
Robinson's form is a case where many of the fundamental kinematics are there, but considering some of the details that are unusual among tippy-top players is instructive. A while ago, I had the sense that Robinson had built his form around the "shoulder at 90 degrees at the release point" advice, a concept that has been floating around for a while and e.g. what the Overthrow Box Drill teaches. While Isaac has made his swing exceptionally effective, when you look at him closely I think you realize there are a few consequences of that heuristic if it is not the natural way your body obtains the greatest leverage advantage through the top line (shoulders & arm) at the hit (release point).
Robinson is an instance of what SW termed a "side shuffle hopper" like Tattar where his knees don't really cross behind in his drive transition - not a complete x-hop. But it gets more interesting than that.
1. Robinson is side shuffle hopping into his move. Notice that his front knee is hanging a bit low relative to top crushers (which seems related to potential torque), and his feet are a little out of neutral position.
2. The bow loading just before the shift. Notice how his posture is a bit leaned away.
3. Compared to 2, notice that his shift "against the door frame" involves his upper body posture correcting to be more centered. If you watch it in real time, you also really can see his upper body "sliding" horizontally along the ground more than it is remaining centered. This is typically not the case in top distance crushers.
4. As a result, you can see some funk here. His pocket and elbow lead are slightly compromised as his shoulder angle looks darn near 90 degrees as he's about the redirect the disc back out. He's got that plant leg deep into it's swivel/buttwipe move clearing his hip and posture. His disc is unusually pitched heading through the pocket due to his move.
5. Heading into the hit, his shoulder angle is still similar - he has probably left some lag and separation on the table. He's nicely braced up and compressed, so he's making it work.
6. BIG decompression against the ground nearly completely vertical in follow through from a very horizontal approach before that point. Perfectly in balance, but perhaps not the most efficient motion from an absolute torque perspective.
Does Robinson throw on a "flat" swing plane for "flat" power shots? Most certainly not:
Fortunately there's a nice slow mo montage of him here:
Pros & cons:
Isaac is obviously killing it right now, and especially in the woods. Anyone who takes down a Major right now is in a league of their own from a physical & psychological perspective. His swing is obviously being used to good effect & as a fairly athletic but not hugely advantaged body type, it's even more impressive. Here are a few things that I think he's doing well, and others that make me thing he's leaving a bit on the table from an efficiency and peak power perspective.
Pros:
-Committing the shot: this guy knows where he wants the disc to go, and makes the disc do that. Immediately. I mean really - holy ****. Look at him put a move on the disc.
-This guy is light and quick on his feet and exceptionally coordinated and balanced. That helps no matter who you are.
-Despite some funk, his swing is actually pretty efficient (as it would need to be for 450'+). Despite coming into the drive move pretty low and horizontal, he's hiding a very powerful compression against the ground, which you can see given his dramatic rise vertically in the follow through.
-He's found a version of an inside posture swing, keeps that disc "trapped" with good head balance, and gets an excellent shift from behind to lead the swing despite some posture oddities.
-Dude smashes on a tilted axis embracing gravity.
Cons:
-I have speculated and SW seems to agree that in general, the (good) x-step provides a significant power advantage over a side shuffle hop. Some of that is the way mass countering and momentum work, and some of it is the additional torque that builds and unloads in the hips creating more opportunities for lag in the chain.
-I just can't see how that ~90 degrees at the hit move is mechanically optimal for him from a peak effortless power perspective. He looks like he has to shift a bit inefficiently against the frame and then get his upper body leading in an extreme tilt putting a lot into the plant leg move to maintain that pocket shape. It's not the same efficiency of Gurthie's move, which would pull a house down. Isaac's off arm looks like a sign of posture and balance compensation more than contributing to peak smash factor to me. Of course, even if I'm right, he's young and light and athletic and it's probably so deeply engrained at this point that it might not be worth it to tinker with for him. And if he can keep winning on the Pro Tour without getting hurt, maybe he already tinkered with it and discarded other options or just wouldn't care at this point.
When would you say "**** it, I'll go with a side shuffle hop"?
I'll be so bold to say I wouldn't advise the side shuffle hop as an "endpoint" for top form. It's not a coincidence that the farthest crushers let the knee cross behind. But you can't ignore how effective players like Tattar and Robinson are at hitting gaps and their overall line control. I'm cherry-picking the data with a recency bias of course, but I do wonder if their lack of the X makes it just a bit easier to control lines. There's just a little less that can go wrong in the Figure 8 action since it's slightly less complex and smaller and does not have as drastic West-East dynamics. You might be bringing in a little less force, but maybe you can get that force to be consistently "sideways" more easily. Of course, plenty of other players are killing it in the woods regularly with an X-step, so this is just musing. I think the side shuffle hop in an instructive learning tool in any case even if you seek the X.
Robinson's form is a case where many of the fundamental kinematics are there, but considering some of the details that are unusual among tippy-top players is instructive. A while ago, I had the sense that Robinson had built his form around the "shoulder at 90 degrees at the release point" advice, a concept that has been floating around for a while and e.g. what the Overthrow Box Drill teaches. While Isaac has made his swing exceptionally effective, when you look at him closely I think you realize there are a few consequences of that heuristic if it is not the natural way your body obtains the greatest leverage advantage through the top line (shoulders & arm) at the hit (release point).
Robinson is an instance of what SW termed a "side shuffle hopper" like Tattar where his knees don't really cross behind in his drive transition - not a complete x-hop. But it gets more interesting than that.
1. Robinson is side shuffle hopping into his move. Notice that his front knee is hanging a bit low relative to top crushers (which seems related to potential torque), and his feet are a little out of neutral position.
2. The bow loading just before the shift. Notice how his posture is a bit leaned away.
3. Compared to 2, notice that his shift "against the door frame" involves his upper body posture correcting to be more centered. If you watch it in real time, you also really can see his upper body "sliding" horizontally along the ground more than it is remaining centered. This is typically not the case in top distance crushers.
4. As a result, you can see some funk here. His pocket and elbow lead are slightly compromised as his shoulder angle looks darn near 90 degrees as he's about the redirect the disc back out. He's got that plant leg deep into it's swivel/buttwipe move clearing his hip and posture. His disc is unusually pitched heading through the pocket due to his move.
5. Heading into the hit, his shoulder angle is still similar - he has probably left some lag and separation on the table. He's nicely braced up and compressed, so he's making it work.
6. BIG decompression against the ground nearly completely vertical in follow through from a very horizontal approach before that point. Perfectly in balance, but perhaps not the most efficient motion from an absolute torque perspective.
Does Robinson throw on a "flat" swing plane for "flat" power shots? Most certainly not:
Fortunately there's a nice slow mo montage of him here:
Pros & cons:
Isaac is obviously killing it right now, and especially in the woods. Anyone who takes down a Major right now is in a league of their own from a physical & psychological perspective. His swing is obviously being used to good effect & as a fairly athletic but not hugely advantaged body type, it's even more impressive. Here are a few things that I think he's doing well, and others that make me thing he's leaving a bit on the table from an efficiency and peak power perspective.
Pros:
-Committing the shot: this guy knows where he wants the disc to go, and makes the disc do that. Immediately. I mean really - holy ****. Look at him put a move on the disc.
-This guy is light and quick on his feet and exceptionally coordinated and balanced. That helps no matter who you are.
-Despite some funk, his swing is actually pretty efficient (as it would need to be for 450'+). Despite coming into the drive move pretty low and horizontal, he's hiding a very powerful compression against the ground, which you can see given his dramatic rise vertically in the follow through.
-He's found a version of an inside posture swing, keeps that disc "trapped" with good head balance, and gets an excellent shift from behind to lead the swing despite some posture oddities.
-Dude smashes on a tilted axis embracing gravity.
Cons:
-I have speculated and SW seems to agree that in general, the (good) x-step provides a significant power advantage over a side shuffle hop. Some of that is the way mass countering and momentum work, and some of it is the additional torque that builds and unloads in the hips creating more opportunities for lag in the chain.
-I just can't see how that ~90 degrees at the hit move is mechanically optimal for him from a peak effortless power perspective. He looks like he has to shift a bit inefficiently against the frame and then get his upper body leading in an extreme tilt putting a lot into the plant leg move to maintain that pocket shape. It's not the same efficiency of Gurthie's move, which would pull a house down. Isaac's off arm looks like a sign of posture and balance compensation more than contributing to peak smash factor to me. Of course, even if I'm right, he's young and light and athletic and it's probably so deeply engrained at this point that it might not be worth it to tinker with for him. And if he can keep winning on the Pro Tour without getting hurt, maybe he already tinkered with it and discarded other options or just wouldn't care at this point.
When would you say "**** it, I'll go with a side shuffle hop"?
I'll be so bold to say I wouldn't advise the side shuffle hop as an "endpoint" for top form. It's not a coincidence that the farthest crushers let the knee cross behind. But you can't ignore how effective players like Tattar and Robinson are at hitting gaps and their overall line control. I'm cherry-picking the data with a recency bias of course, but I do wonder if their lack of the X makes it just a bit easier to control lines. There's just a little less that can go wrong in the Figure 8 action since it's slightly less complex and smaller and does not have as drastic West-East dynamics. You might be bringing in a little less force, but maybe you can get that force to be consistently "sideways" more easily. Of course, plenty of other players are killing it in the woods regularly with an X-step, so this is just musing. I think the side shuffle hop in an instructive learning tool in any case even if you seek the X.
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