Knee Issues

[Kodachrome]

yeah. i'm 25. pride in your youth won't make your knee feel better. i know where you're coming from - don't be stubborn.

i had intermittent hip problems while landscaping for 6 years. i toughed it out until one day i was walking down the stairs and had such unexpected, excruciating hip pain that i couldn't hold my own weight up, immediately buckled and fell down a full flight.

funny, because when i was a kid i had synovitis in my hip. but i was 22, didn't want to see a doctor because it was just some hip pain. derp.

your knee sounds like it's effed in some way, shape or form. but i'm not a doctor. either stop potentially hurting it or see a doctor. or both.

general aches and pains are one thing. ask away. not trying to be a jerk, but seriously man. i've been in your shoes, i was an athlete (wrestling, baseball, football, even cheerleading) and did the whole "don't need no stinkin' doctor" thing. it wasn't hard. but it wasn't smart, either.

 

[JTdisc]

My knee pain went away when I started throwing primarily forehand.

Toe-rotating killed my knee. Heel rotation when I do backhand now helps immensely.

 

[HiFi]

The knee brace may help but you are most likely going to need knee surgery. My friend had a very very similar problem and just had surgery a few weeks ago. Ligament and cartilage damage will cause the symptoms you are describing, which was my friends case.

 

[aPfaff]

It may be do to putting. After Worlds, I started getting pains in my right knee. I figured out that when I putt, my left foot is planted at about 5π/6 if looking at a unit circle. When I would bend down, my right knee would almost buckle when I sprang back up.

 

[ACE Ventura]

Thanks guys for your advice and some humorous comments lol

I knew there would be multiple people who has been in similar situations, that's why I come to you first! I think I will rock a knee brace for this last stretch of the season before the snow falls and then schedule that dreaded visit... I'm glad a lot of you understand the athlete/ pride mentality of playing through the pain, sometimes being stubborn doesn't pay off I guess.

I never thought that the toe rotation could be a factor that would cause more issues, I will definitely work on developing a heel rotation and see if that helps too. Do you still do heel rotations for deep lay up shots/ fairway drives?

 

[DavidSauls]

Here's my more optimistic cautionary tale of experience:

One of my knees starting hurting at age 15, the other at age 22. Similarly, they wouldn't hurt most of the time but an occasional random move would send pain like someone had driven a nail between the bones, and the knee would give way. Uphill and downhill were frequent culprits.

By the time I got to my early 40s I was wearing knee braces for office work, and decided to endure surgery. So I finally went to an orthopedist
.....and he diagnosed them as tight hamstrings. Was sent to physical therapy instead of surgery to learn stretching exercises, and in no time my knees were better than they had been 20 years earlier.

Man, if I'd only gone to the doctor 20 years sooner, I'd have saved myself a lot of pain and trouble. Especially since the cure was so easy.

 

[ACE Ventura]

By the time I got to my early 40s I was wearing knee braces for office work, and decided to endure surgery. So I finally went to an orthopedist
.....and he diagnosed them as tight hamstrings. Was sent to physical therapy instead of surgery to learn stretching exercises, and in no time my knees were better than they had been 20 years earlier.

Consider a new or more supportive pair of shoes.

Warm up your knees before throwing. A light jog followed by a quick walk side ways seems to help my knees warm up for throwing.

The more I think about it... I realize I'm one of the worst people ever when it comes to stretching. Before discing or even on a daily schedule, I never do it. Maybe I need to get into some yoga classes and learn some useful stretching habits/ techniques...

Also, Shamis, I have a pair of Merell's for DG... I feel like their support is top notch for the hiking around DG requires. I've tried wearing my running sneakers (amazing support) out on the course but they don't ease the problem.

 

[knettles]

As others have mentioned, stretching is a big deal. A bit of strength training can really help too. Your situation sounds very similar to mine. I find downhills usually hurt more than throwing or anything else. Just trying to keep that vertical impact on the heel to a minimal helps me most.

 

[HiFi]

"The stability of the knee is provided by the ligaments that connect the shin bone (tibia) to the thigh bone (femur). When the ligaments are stretched or torn, the knee may feel as though it is giving way beneath the patient. A sensation that the knee may give out from beneath you is a common symptom of ligament injury."

"Grinding or crunching is a common symptom of cartilage problems. If the cartilage is damaged -- a condition called chondromalacia -- a crunching sensation is often felt by placing the hand over the kneecap and bending the knee. A similar grinding sensation may be felt with knee arthritis."

I'm not trying to be a negative nancy, but people saying that stretching or hamstring problems could be the cause or cure seems unlikely. A knee giving out from underneath you and crunching is not a muscular problem.

 

[Rhynos4life]

I never thought that the toe rotation could be a factor that would cause more issues, I will definitely work on developing a heel rotation and see if that helps too. Do you still do heel rotations for deep lay up shots/ fairway drives?

I was a long time toe rotator and as I got older (about when I turned 24[I'm 26 now]), my knee began to give me issues after my usual 2 rounds a day (at the time). I did a little research on here and decided it was probably because of my toe pivoting and so I decided to take the time and change to a heel pivot and it made all the difference. My knee no longer bothers me and I can throw farther and more consistently/accurately. This didn't happen over night but sometimes you have to take 2 steps back to make 3 steps forward.

For long lay up and fairway shots I just rely on transferring my weight from my back foot to my front with a very minor heel pivot.

Make the change now and your future self will thank you.

 

[Shamis]

My knees were bothering me quite a bit this summer. I hit it from all sides: new shoes, better warmups, better stretching and more focus on pivoting on my heel. I also started to plant my forward foot with the toe pointing about 45 degrees from front instead of 90. That gave me less pivoting to do and if i didn't pivot well i was already half way there anyway.

My knees feel great now. I don't know what your feet are like, but if they are very flat your merrils will break down and need to be replaced before the sole wears out so keep that in mind.

In my early 20's i had chronic knee pain for years. I figured my knees were shot, but it turns out I was pronating too much and just needed more supportive shoes.

 

[ACE Ventura]

"Grinding or crunching is a common symptom of cartilage problems. If the cartilage is damaged -- a condition called chondromalacia -- a crunching sensation is often felt by placing the hand over the kneecap and bending the knee. A similar grinding sensation may be felt with knee arthritis."

Maybe I should have gone to Web MD as well, this could be the answer for sure... it would make some sense I guess, I've already found out I have a condition called "chondrocalcinosis" in my wrists, meaning irritating my wrist joints causes inflammation which then precipitates calcium onto the joint, basically causing a form of gout/ arthritis. I have limited wrist flexibility and things like push ups are basically impossible unless I want my wrists to be in pain. I'm banking on getting an Anakin Skywalker surgery done and get a robotic wrist someday... do you think the PDGA would disqualify me for having a robotic throwing hand? lol

 

[DavidSauls]

I'm not trying to be a negative nancy, but people saying that stretching or hamstring problems could be the cause or cure seems unlikely. A knee giving out from underneath you and crunching is not a muscular problem.

I'm one of those advocating stretching, inasmuch as it could be the problem and doesn't cost much, in dollars or time, to try it.

I've been both routes---knee pain alleved by stretching, as in my earlier long boring post, and more recently torn cartilage, repaired surgically.

Even better, I recommend seeing a doctor to determine, now, if it's a flexibility issue or a damage issue. But I offer optimism that it could be the former.

 

[jchoate7]

The pain your describing sounds identical to the pain I receive in my knee. So, here's my story:

I've had 2 knee surgeries in High School myself. Both of them were meniscus tears. Anyways, it's been 5 years and picking up disc golf last year is paying it's toll. I figured out a system that I use to minimize pain though and it has worked for me. I stretch everyday, in the morning and at night. I also stretch before the round. I take 2 Aleve if I know I am going to be playing that day in the morning. And I wear a Shock Doctor knee brace (http://www.alssports.com/Product.aspx?pf_id=10130328&gclid=CJH1u9a3m7oCFcuZ4AodjVQAqw). After days where it really bothers me I ice it. I've pretty much eliminated any pain and the only time I do get pain is when I slack on doing any of the above things.

 

[Shamis]

Also, I had a lot of grinding and crunching in my knees when they hurt bad in my 20's. Better shoes, and more attention to warming up for any sport slowly fixed it (that and I never play indoor volleyball anymore)

Seeing a Dr is worthwhile. But it could be costly, and unless there is some kind of acute injury they probably can't do much except send you to PT, which is rarely covered well by insurance even if you have it.

 

[ACE Ventura]

Seeing a Dr is worthwhile. But it could be costly, and unless there is some kind of acute injury they probably can't do much except send you to PT, which is rarely covered well by insurance even if you have it.

But I thought Obama was changing everything! He'll make sure the taxpayers cover all my medical expenses, right??

:wall:

I appreciate all the advice guys, this is why I came to you first! The DGCR community is the best.

 

[dusty5150]

15 year toe spinner here. knee pain started last year. went to the doctor and she said the only fix was to stop doing the activity that caused the pain - i laughed. she said if there wasn't a failure of some sort, they wouldn't even look at it. so now I wear a tensor, which helps a lot - it's like night and day actually; try one. I've been trying to heel pivot in practice but it's soo strange - I'm hoping to work on it more over the winter when I'm playing less often. take care of it while you're young.

 

[justin]

Please goto the doctor for this. I always thought I was rotating on my front foot but apparently I was not. I completely tore my ACL back in June (as in 100% tear and not reparable, only replaceable with a "new" ACL) . I've been doing a lot of PT to try to build muscle around my ACL and miniscus which is also torn. After many months I finally got the ok to start playing again with an ACL brace. I don't know if you haev the risk of doing what I did but I ended up with a major injury and I wish I had, had some pain before hand as a warning. Please go get yourself checked out. It would suck to end up with a limp for the rest of your life.

 

[Uncle Matt]

Glucosamine Sulfate and MSM helps me.

I'm 31 and have knee troubles.It's mainly arthritis and probably just wore out knees.

I don't go to the doctor either,so this is my solution.

Plus Turmeric is a good Anti Inflammatory and when combined with a Vitamin D3 supplement it doubles the potency of Turmeric. :thmbup:

 

[ACE Ventura]

Update for anyone who cares:

I did go to the doctor and he believes that I may have a meniscus tear of some degree. The grinding I feel on my knee is due to an uneven bit of cartilage behind my knee cap and is nothing serious. I was scheduled for a MRI to really see what is going on but unfortunately I had to push it back a month because I was called back out to work. He said there is nothing to do besides surgery but it shouldn't turn into a bigger problem and wearing a brace probably wouldn't help.

Fortunately winter is coming and I can do what needs to be done... how this will affect my snowboarding is yet to be seen but Im guessing not too good since it's a knee surgery lol

Thanks again for all your advice people!!