Maxing out at ~400 ft...suggestions?

[Mike C]

I find my drives maxing out around 400. Wondering what I should try to get past this mark.

I took everything faster than a Firebird out of my bag at the suggestion of some people here.

I drive with various Wizards for anything under 300, up to 330 if the teepad has elevation. Buzz is used for 300-350, again longer if elevation is there (Use it for a 375ft anny drive with elevation for example). Can take the buzz out to 375 flatground but I find it difficult to control at that distance, I don't usually throw it for drives past 350-360 if it's flat ground. Use the fairway drivers for 350+ usually, sometimes 325-350 if it will hit a certain line better than my buzz would.

For drives long enough to grab something faster than a wizard or buzz, I'd say I use my 175g Star Leopard 50% of the time, 171g Star Teebird 35% of the time, and 175g Pro Firebird 15% of the time. I find I usually get the fairway drivers within 5 feet of the Firebird, so I usually stick to them, with the impression that maybe the Firebird is too fast for me or the heavy weight + overstability is making it fade too hard too soon compared to the lighter, more worn Teebird.

I can consistently line drive the fairway drivers straight for 375 feet. 400 feet I can do 85% of the time, still anny out once in a while with the Leopard at this distance and once in a while throw too nose up to hit 400 feet. But right here seems to be my max distance on the course, hitting lines.

I've been keeping very few discs in my bag and trying to concentrate primarily on technique and form than what disc I'm throwing. Keeping the nose down, clean release, strong snap and proper hyzer / anny angle. I've developed a lot of control but I still have trouble trying to park a 450 ft drive.

I typically just throw with a tiny bit of hyzer, so that the disc sits up flat, drifts slightly to the right, then fades down where I want it to. I'm happy with the control I've developed but I'm wanting to be able to hit 450 feet flat ground.

I'll try to get a video soon...

 

[Mason65]

Hows your putting?

 

[JHern]

I know you're trying to throw 450' with putters and all, but...also seems like you also use a lot of stable/overstable discs. I.e., I note the absence of a disc that is designed to continuously turn at high speed through a high apex (nose down) for max distance lines. If true, you might think about getting something more suitable for these kinds of lines...that in itself can add 50'. Ever try a Beast, or similar?

 

[black udder]

At your distance, you could probably add a faster driver (wraith or nuke, etc.) and be able to throw it properly. That might yield you some extra distance.

I'd propose that what you're lacking now is timing. If you get 375' on demand, then you've got enough of the basics down enough that it's onto the more advanced points to get more distance. I'm going to assume that because you're using teebirds and leopards, which would not behave that well with a lot of OAT or anhyzer release.

Check out the discussions on wrist extension and late hit. Dan talks about it and so does Bradley. They both have videos, study and see what they're doing. Could be that you're not doing one of those things or not doing it well enough to capitalize on it.

 

[Aaron_D]

Welcome to the stuck at 400 club. Ive been trying to build consistency over 400 for the past two years. I have tons of control up to 385ish but trying to push anything out farther is very hit or miss. I have days when I can control it up to 430 with freak drives going 450ish, but more often that not im sitting around 400 with everything from JLS's or Bosses. Im sure it would come faster if I had someone coaching me in person, but this plateau is a mega ultra bitch. I remember other plateaus that seemed insurmountable and knowing Ive passed through those motivates me to keep at it.

 

[keltik1]

well i'm just getting to this plateau here recently. This may actually be the 370' plateau Blake used to write about but it has shifted to 400' due to "technology". I don't think it's a bad plateau. I mean we are out throwing 90%+ of the DG populace. the other 10% can still hit trees too :twisted:.

I was playing today and chatted briefly with another player (he was bitching about the wind). I watched him throw a drive into a headwind and it turned over like hell and he said "yeah that was one of the most stable discs in my bag" and I said something like "what was it a Firebird?" and he said "naw it was a roadrunner" :shock:. I think if I don't ever max out farther than 420' I won't be too upset. I'm not a touring pro and I don't plan to be but I enjoy this game and I enjoy throwing farther than the average joe.

 

[Lithicon]

LOL, Keltik. I enjoy those moments, and I'm glad we all have them!

But, yeah the 400'club is growing in numbers actually. I'm sad to say I've decreased my distance as I can barely even get 400' anymore due to me being in the middle of a form change to try and overcome this plateau. Everything has suffered, so if and when you do change some of your form, be careful not to change too much at once, as you seem to have the major parts down. The rest seems to be fine tuning/tweaks in your timing. And, if you do change a lot, be prepared to suck it up for a while. I've been working almost every day in the field to reconstruct my accuracy within my new form. Working majorly on shaping lines again with the new form.

The Wrist Extension and late hit threads along with a few others could help you in the form catagory.
But, as JHern, and Black Udder said, don't be afraid to put those faster disc back in your bag if you can achieve those distances with the Teebirds and Leo's now. As he also said, those disc will put the pep-back in your step and give you some more notable distance since you're obviously throwing everything correctly for the most part. Wraith, Destroyer, Katana?, Force, and Nuke I'd say would be a good place to start looking for that extra distance at this point.

 

[emiller3]

I'm stuck in the same spot. It helps to throw on windy days, play the wind and you can get up to 450' I threw my first 500' throw the other day, totally tailwind assisted. It was crazy.

I do hit 430' on the practice field, and it's always either with my Valks on a calm day, or with my Destroyers into a headwind. So I second the idea that your discs need to be turning and fading forward, any sideways fade and you're probably not going over 400'.

I also second the idea that controlled 400' of distance, for me throwing an Eagle or Destroyer on a flat line drive with no flip and a decent amount of fade, is nothing to laugh at, it gets you through just fine on most holes on most courses.

I'm stuck like Aaron, anything from Eagles to Destroyers all go 400' on a good rip. Shoot, I've even thrown my Meteors up to 380'. But, in the end, I throw those same distances on flex lines, line drives, hyzer flips...everything ends up about the same distance.

For me personally, I believe I'm not getting great late acceleration...I've never worked on the right pec drill. I also believe that my wrist extension is fleeting...those great rips that go 420' or even 450', I can feel my arm whip through because my timing is perfect, I get enough height, and I focus it all into the wrist extension, and the disc pops. I also tend to not get my weight forward, and everything goes back to being about 380' because I get the nose up some. My arm also gets a lot more sore...now that I'm consistently getting my weight forward, I must not be strong arming, because I just keep throwing and throwing and I'm not getting sore. So, like BU says, it may just be timing, playing with those and getting them all to work together...you get a couple throws where it works, and you just keep trying to emulate it. The knowledge you gain here really helps you to assess your throw and tweak things.

That being said, I was playing with a local Pro the other day, and he had 'it.' Call it smash factor or whatever, but his form sucked...it looked like he was throwing with the wrong hand. But when the disc left his hand, it just shot out like a cannon, and despite all his bad form and whatnot, he was easily outdistancing me. There are two Pros like that in town, and whenever I see them throw, I just realize that there is somethings secret about big D, and I still don't have it, and really haven't found how to get it.

 

[Mike C]

Hows your putting?

Very good lately, been nailing some 40-70 footers which is always nice. Deuced a few longer holes for my first time this month too.

I know you're trying to throw 450' with putters and all, but...also seems like you also use a lot of stable/overstable discs. I.e., I note the absence of a disc that is designed to continuously turn at high speed through a high apex (nose down) for max distance lines. If true, you might think about getting something more suitable for these kinds of lines...that in itself can add 50'. Ever try a Beast, or similar?

I don't try to throw my Wizards over 300 feet flat unless I'm playing a putter round. I've been trying to get my two birds and leopards to break 400. think that might be pushing what the leopard / teebird are designed for?

I've thrown beasts, wraiths, vikings and valks...didn't care for them that much, but I threw far worse than I did now. I have a nice heavier weight champ valk I've been meaning to take out and see what it does for me now, since getting so used to my Leopard. I also have a Destroyer that's nicely worn, a fresh Xcalibur and a Groove. Don't like how the wide wing feels so I rarely throw them, but when the weather clears I might field test all these drivers since it's been a while since I've messed with them. Also have an ESP Surge I enjoyed throwing but never got it much further than my FB. I think that'll go in my bag next time I play.

I also second the idea that controlled 400' of distance, for me throwing an Eagle or Destroyer on a flat line drive with no flip and a decent amount of fade, is nothing to laugh at, it gets you through just fine on most holes on most courses.

For me personally, I believe I'm not getting great late acceleration...I've never worked on the right pec drill. I also believe that my wrist extension is fleeting...those great rips that go 420' or even 450', I can feel my arm whip through because my timing is perfect, I get enough height, and I focus it all into the wrist extension, and the disc pops. I also tend to not get my weight forward, and everything goes back to being about 380' because I get the nose up some. My arm also gets a lot more sore...now that I'm consistently getting my weight forward, I must not be strong arming, because I just keep throwing and throwing and I'm not getting sore. So, like BU says, it may just be timing, playing with those and getting them all to work together...you get a couple throws where it works, and you just keep trying to emulate it. The knowledge you gain here really helps you to assess your throw and tweak things.

I agree with the first part I quoted. I feel comfortable with my current skill level. I'm more concerned with working on putts and long approaches, and tuning accuracy across the board. But hearing about people throwing 500 feet makes me know I can do more with my game. I'm tall and muscular, I feel fully confident that once I learn the correct form I will be hitting 500 feet. If I end up being wrong, oh well, I have tons of fun as it is and that won't stop any time soon. But I do want to spend a day out trying to hit 450.

I think I'll check out the threads mentioned. Two things that I think I need to work on is getting a fully body rotation leading up to the throw and concentrating on generating power throughout my core, and pulling hard later in my throw. What's the consensus of when to let your full power rip? As late as possible? When your hand passes your right pec? Hell those threads probably have my answer....

 

[masterbeato]

I'm not a touring pro and I don't plan to be but I enjoy this game and I enjoy throwing farther than the average joe.

i am an avg. joe.....

 

[Lithicon]

But, you're more than the average bear... :wink:

 

[GunnerUnitas1]

are you using the same controlled run up(x step/hop) for your distance throws as well?
W/o a vid its hard to diagnose.

 

[keltik1]

I'm not a touring pro and I don't plan to be but I enjoy this game and I enjoy throwing farther than the average joe.

i am an avg. joe.....

you're an average mutant :lol:

 

[Timko]

I average 400'.

When throwing Hole #1 at Waterworks...

 

[Mike C]

are you using the same controlled run up(x step/hop) for your distance throws as well?
W/o a vid its hard to diagnose.

I use the x step, except with my back foot I step in front of my front foot rather than behind it. Just more comfortable with that method.

I'll make a video today if the rain clears up, later in the week if not.

 

[zj10021]

I am the same as the rest of you. I worked a little on timing yesterday at Discnation and the fields before my round at Circle C. I noticed it the disc went farther(and felt effortless) when I focused on the steps(in the x step) and how I am transferring my weight on the disc. Been watching a lot of videos to teach myself proper footwork and lower body positioning. I have little disc control when I do this, since all my focus is on my feet, but I know I need to change this before I even think about a late hit or wrist extension. Once I get adjusted to the footwork, to where I can think less about it, then I will add the other stuff. So far I have seen a 30-50ft improvement, but with no accuracy for now.

 

[TheLastBoyScout]

best thing i found to break the 400ft barrier was getting something stable (it was max weight xcals at this point as it has just hit the market) and practice pounding out low flat shots. At first, i could get 300 feet this way, but i would just go out and throw shot after shot after shot until my arm was tired, or daylight ran out. Now, a 400ft shot with an xcal going low and flat to 400 is a bread and butter shot (not a real world golf shot, strictly practice). as soon as i switched to something less stable, like a destroyer, it was as if i had taken some magic distance pill. so now, 440 with a flat shot is something that takes as much effort as throwing an xcal 400ft flat. start to work a little anhyzer flex action on a disc and 500+ is the norm.

i just think of it as working with weights. if you struggle lifting a 25 pound box, you can train one of two ways to get better at it. you can either lift 25 pounds over and over using high reps and get use to lifting 25 pounds, or you can start working your way up to lifting 50 pounds using low reps.

throwing something overstable and trying to pound out the distance would be like training up to lifting 50 pounds.

throwing your normal distance driver over and over would be like training with 25 pounds.

i have been re-working my form to take out as much useless parts of the routine, or anything that could cause me to throw offline or change my angle of attack, and this type of training helped me get back into for fairly quickly.

But, dont let this fool you, there is no true substitute for making sure your form is proper first. that alone will add distance that you otherwise will never get no matter how hard you train.

 

[Blake_T1]

the last plateau before big power shifts every few years with technology.

for golf shot D:
1993-1997: ~340'. Gazelle, Cheetah, Polaris LS, Cyclone
1998-2000: ~350'. Eagle, Teebird, XL, JLS
2001-2002: ~360'. Valkyrie, XS, Original Beast, Wildcat
2003-2004: ~380'. Orc, Starfire, Flash, Crush
2005-2007: ~400'. Wraith, Surge
2008-present: ~420'. Destroyer, etc.

these power levels are all roughly equal. that is, if you peak out with a controlled golf shot with a wraith around 400', you will probably peak out with an eagle in the vicinity of 350' on controlled golf shots.

ways to add d:
1. learn to throw a distance line.
2. throw a longer disc.
3. learn to throw with more snap.

#3 is the only REAL distance increase... that is, a distance increase that isn't already available to everyone else without changing their technique.

#1 is just learning a new shot.
#2 is a technology increase. for people at this plateau, an R Pro Boss sub-165g is probably the longest disc on the market. it will fly 25-50' farther than a destroyer.

i don't think anyone should ever question other aspects of the game while trying to discourage people from throwing farther. those who don't think throwing far is important don't see the true advantage to length. basic summary: you exert more control on a disc when you are throwing it in a range you can easily reach. someone who can throw 500' and throws a destroyer 430' will exert much greater control over the disc than someone who peaks out with a destroyer at 430' that is trying to throw it 430'. someone who can throw a roc 360' will exert much greater control over the disc when throwing it 300' than someone who peaks out with their roc at 300'. etc.

this advantage is pretty huge. the longer thrower has easier throws on everything inside their range than someone who is pushing the edge of their range. e.g. if player A has 16 holes with drives within their range and player B only has 10 holes with drives within their range on the same course, player B has to play much better to hang with player A and has no chance if player A is playing really well.

basically, to break this plateau you have the choice of working on technique until you can throw with more snap and probably f'ing up your game big time in the short run at the hope of long term distance gains or you can experiment with making the disc fly farther given your power level.

I know I need to change this before I even think about a late hit or wrist extension. Once I get adjusted to the footwork, to where I can think less about it, then I will add the other stuff.

this is exactly the opposite of how you should be working on it. snap is independent of footwork. you can snap a disc from a stationary throw. building footwork that puts you in the best position to snap the disc only happens after you have learned to snap the disc. trying to learn to snap a disc given footwork you already have in play is exponentially harder.

I use the x step, except with my back foot I step in front of my front foot rather than behind it. Just more comfortable with that method.

this successfully blocks any power you could gain from hip rotation.

That being said, I was playing with a local Pro the other day, and he had 'it.' Call it smash factor or whatever, but his form sucked...it looked like he was throwing with the wrong hand. But when the disc left his hand, it just shot out like a cannon, and despite all his bad form and whatnot, he was easily outdistancing me. There are two Pros like that in town, and whenever I see them throw, I just realize that there is somethings secret about big D, and I still don't have it, and really haven't found how to get it.

knowing how to snap it can negate tons and tons of form flaws. while max efficiency happens when both snap and form are great, it is possible to snap it hard with very flawed form.

 

[Timko]

That being said, I was playing with a local Pro the other day, and he had 'it.' Call it smash factor or whatever, but his form sucked...it looked like he was throwing with the wrong hand. But when the disc left his hand, it just shot out like a cannon, and despite all his bad form and whatnot, he was easily outdistancing me. There are two Pros like that in town, and whenever I see them throw, I just realize that there is somethings secret about big D, and I still don't have it, and really haven't found how to get it.

knowing how to snap it can negate tons and tons of form flaws. while max efficiency happens when both snap and form are great, it is possible to snap it hard with very flawed form.

A la Steve Rico? He snaps the hell out of the disc (throws a Firebird for his straight fairway drives), but doesn't he do this correction thing with his shoulder to keep the disc flat?

 

[scoopa]

Thank you Blake for the post.