Moving from understable to overstable

[treehugger87]

I didn't get a chance to try out or buy anything over the weekend, but as soon as I have free time/money I plan to go grab a Surge SS and give it a try. Mark, I do plan to continue throwing my understable stuff. I do more field work than round playing and I throw all my discs from the crazy flippy to the way too overstable every week to keep an idea of what they do as I progress. It's nice to have that turn over shot when I need it so I don't see the Avenger SS leaving my bag anytime soon. The Surge SS seems to be one of the consensus next step discs so I'm probably going to go with it as my next main driver. It's nice to hear from more experienced players on subjects like this. I really didn't want to start working with a disc out of my power range and screw up what little form I have so I thought I'd ask the experts . Once again, thanks for all the input everybody.

 

[slowarm]

That would be true for the so called new mold that came years ago. Things have changed about two years ago for some reason. Stabilization process? I have a flippy old mold Beast and several much more HSS ones from two years back to current. That don't flip at all in calm weather thrown to 400'. On occasion i've seen tight s-curves with minimal flip at 410-420' but can't say if it was from wind or not. Adding a few degrees of hyzer in a headwind with the Beast is not a problem. Of course faster or relatively less spin throwers get more turn than i do. I flip Valks thrown as hard as the Beast going flat without flipping to 400'.

Hold on, JR. Thanks to your suggestion, I've been throwing "new mold" Beasts for a year or so. The best of them fly exactly the way you describe, but I've had a few flippy Beasts.

From my experience, it's not the plastic but the dome that makes the difference. I had a flat Champ and a almost flat Pro Beast, both of them turned too much for my liking. In the headwind they were turning into rollers, no matter how much hyzer was added. On the other hand, my favorite distance drivers are a Champ and a Pro Beast, both of them with a slight dome. They're just the ones you are talking about...although I don't toss 400'. (350' or a bit more is my max.)

To the original poster: I would too recommend the Saint. It's an excellent disc, but be warned. It has a (slightly) slanted rim. Some of us hate the +rim. Same with the faster Flow. The Beast is also fine, maybe an Orc too if you find the Beast too understable. And then of course there's the Wraith. If it starts with a fade too strong, don't worry, it won't stay that way for a long time (get a pro wraith...)

 

[JR]

I don't honestly see a large difference at all in the flipping and non flipping Beasts. Half a millimeter or so. About the same difference in PLH so it is hard to differentiate them by eye unless you can put a known comparison disc side by side with another disc.

New molds have been manufactured for years but the majority of the discs i've encountered at the shops since the last two years have become more overstable so i've sometimes called the later Beasts the third type of Beasts.

 

[treehugger87]

slowarm, by your response I'm going to assume that the more of a dome the disc has the more overstable it is. It makes sense considering the echo star destroyer I have is way overstable and the dx destroyer I have isn't (the dx's dome is flatter). I've never really considered the individual make-up of a disc and have only considered the numbers given to that particular type of disc. Which is why I was a bit perplexed when I saw the varying numbers on the same discs in different plastic made by discraft, but I get it now. It seems like the molds/plastics and their varying stability are a bit harder to pick up on with Innova. Is this true or am I just out of the info loop?

 

[Stringbean]

slowarm, by your response I'm going to assume that the more of a dome the disc has the more overstable it is. It makes sense considering the echo star destroyer I have is way overstable and the dx destroyer I have isn't (the dx's dome is flatter). I've never really considered the individual make-up of a disc and have only considered the numbers given to that particular type of disc. Which is why I was a bit perplexed when I saw the varying numbers on the same discs in different plastic made by discraft, but I get it now. It seems like the molds/plastics and their varying stability are a bit harder to pick up on with Innova. Is this true or am I just out of the info loop?

Generally, more dome creates more glide and fade. Read this thread... http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25230

 

[JR]

That rule of thumb is too inaccurate these times. Flat Firebirds and Katanas fade harder than domier ones.

 

[slowarm]

slowarm, by your response I'm going to assume that the more of a dome the disc has the more overstable it is. It makes sense considering the echo star destroyer I have is way overstable and the dx destroyer I have isn't (the dx's dome is flatter). I've never really considered the individual make-up of a disc and have only considered the numbers given to that particular type of disc. Which is why I was a bit perplexed when I saw the varying numbers on the same discs in different plastic made by discraft, but I get it now. It seems like the molds/plastics and their varying stability are a bit harder to pick up on with Innova. Is this true or am I just out of the info loop?

Unfortunately, it's not that easy. I was only talking about the eight or nine Beasts I've thrown. I've seen a pattern there. But my most overstable Wraith is a perfectly flat Star Wraith, for example. The rule of thumb exists, but as JR said, it's not very accurate. The discaholics here on DGR know much better than I about the factors that make a disc more/less stable, my only advice is: If you ever find a disc you like, try to find identical ones.

 

[bfowler]

Been playing for 4 months and my first disc was an Avenger SS and in the last 3 weeks I suddenly started turning it over like crazy. Then I was hyzer flipping the crap out of it but now it's hard for me to even control that. I assumed that going to the full Avenger was the answer and it's been great for me. I've also been working in a Surge. I throw both about 300 feet but the surge is almost always for for another 10-50 feet of skip. I'm still not as dead straight with the Avenger as I was with the A-SS but then I traded a guy for a Stalker and that my go to straight disk right now. Heck, it could be my go to disk for everything except putting.