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New Age-Based Competition Divisions Starting in 2018
- Thread starter DiscFifty
- Start date
PMantle
* Ace Member *
Terrible. There's too many divisions already, and sometimes us old guys have to play down in age just to get more than two on a card around here.
Agree, this is awful. In a quest for points for World's, it is already a challenge to find a field in the larger, combined GM division, to pick up more than a handful of points. This essentially will require coordination among the age protected division participants or just forcing me to play in the non age protected brackets. I suppose I will begin to encourage TD's to simply not offer the top age division within each of the old division set up. Only offer 50-55, 60-65, and not offer the 55-59 and 65-69. Outside of large events, NT, Bowling Green.....this effectively will kill off the age protected divisions in most of my regional tournaments.
The only positive I can state, is surprisingly, the PDGA did not announce and institute this half way through the tournament season.
Damn, why does the PDGA continue to make playing within their system, so difficult?
I agree. Not a productive move.
However, the tournaments the advanced age groups attend in large numbers are usually the best tournaments.
However, the tournaments the advanced age groups attend in large numbers are usually the best tournaments.
bnbanbury
Eagle Member
I honestly thought this was some sort of joke article poking light fun at how many divisions we have already. I can't fathom the basis for this decision. Are people finding huge wait-lists for age protected divisions? Is anyone actually asking for this?
Vonbeezy1
Banned
I'll join the almost unanimous decision and agree that there are way too many divisions already. What a joke it is to add even more divisions
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2009
- Messages
- 4,011
Haven't played tourneys for a couple of years, so I do not have much of a stake in this. However:
Positive: MA50 makes a lot more sense than "Advanced Grand Exalted Senior Master" or whatever, which always sounded like a title from the KKK.
Negative: When I did play tournaments, I usually played with the youngsters in Intermediate or Advanced Masters. I think I played one Advanced Grandmaster tournament, and it was the same 3 guys every round. Not much different from a casual round with my buddies, but slower. Soooo much slower.
Maybe the smaller age ranges make more sense for regional or national level tournaments, but it is hard to see them being useful for local tourneys.
As far as the medical rationale for the change, I have continued to improve from my 40s through 50s. Hmm, maybe I'm just an especially slow learner.
Positive: MA50 makes a lot more sense than "Advanced Grand Exalted Senior Master" or whatever, which always sounded like a title from the KKK.
Negative: When I did play tournaments, I usually played with the youngsters in Intermediate or Advanced Masters. I think I played one Advanced Grandmaster tournament, and it was the same 3 guys every round. Not much different from a casual round with my buddies, but slower. Soooo much slower.
Maybe the smaller age ranges make more sense for regional or national level tournaments, but it is hard to see them being useful for local tourneys.
As far as the medical rationale for the change, I have continued to improve from my 40s through 50s. Hmm, maybe I'm just an especially slow learner.
In my 8 years experience, I've encountered one person that complained about competing at 49 years old against a 40 year old.
Maybe..................but, I am not sure how my tournament experience at Bowling Green, Worlds or any large national event is made better by competing against less golfers.
Spinthrift
Eagle Member
I tend to agree it's too many divisions, but I understand why it makes sense for some, especially at the upper ages. From personal experience I can tell you the decline in most performance factors drops steeply from 55-on, but precipitously from mid-60s.
I'm 67 this year, and my five MS1 appearances in Am Worlds since 2011 have resulted in two world titles, two 2nds and a 3rd. But I've lost 60-to-80 feet off my best drives in the last five years, making it tough to compete against young-buck 59 and 60 year olds. The best examination of this I've read is Chuck Kennedy's "Hanging On" here:
https://www.pdga.com/hanging
Not sure how much difference it'll make in the end. Even in the Charlotte region where we have a strong base of GMs and Sr. GMs, events often collapse Seniors into GMs and GMs into Masters anyway.
I'm 67 this year, and my five MS1 appearances in Am Worlds since 2011 have resulted in two world titles, two 2nds and a 3rd. But I've lost 60-to-80 feet off my best drives in the last five years, making it tough to compete against young-buck 59 and 60 year olds. The best examination of this I've read is Chuck Kennedy's "Hanging On" here:
https://www.pdga.com/hanging
Not sure how much difference it'll make in the end. Even in the Charlotte region where we have a strong base of GMs and Sr. GMs, events often collapse Seniors into GMs and GMs into Masters anyway.
I don't think it makes any difference at all except at the largest events that have the attendance enough to populate each of the divisions. At local B and C-tier events and probably most A-tiers, it won't have any impact at all.
Let's keep in mind that just because all these divisions are an option, TDs are under ZERO obligation to offer/hold them all. A wise TD will select the ones that will get interest and ignore the rest. No reason to allow players to sign up for MA65 if you think there will only be one. Let that one sign up for MA50 or MA60 or whatever is offered rather than have to move them around on tournament day.
Let's keep in mind that just because all these divisions are an option, TDs are under ZERO obligation to offer/hold them all. A wise TD will select the ones that will get interest and ignore the rest. No reason to allow players to sign up for MA65 if you think there will only be one. Let that one sign up for MA50 or MA60 or whatever is offered rather than have to move them around on tournament day.
It will be interesting here in SoCal as well, where we have a sizable Grandmaster player base. A worthy experiment to try, as several of us are walking/limping testimonies to the difference five-year blocks make. For those who are concerned about diluting the divisions, let the experiment run its course and people decide where they want to play. Maybe we will learn something and encourage the continued participation of 58 or 63 year-olds who don't want to be punked by people who can throw 80 feet further.
_MTL_
Flippy Flopper
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2008
- Messages
- 3,515
_MTL_
Flippy Flopper
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2008
- Messages
- 3,515
Key things to remember:
- TDs don't have to offer a division if they don't want to.
- This mainly is intended to be used at the world's and other large scale events, not your local c tier.
- Numbers continue to be our sports biggest issue. This may not be the answer, but it's an attempt to increase numbers
- This will not be in effect for the worlds in 2018.
- TDs don't have to offer a division if they don't want to.
- This mainly is intended to be used at the world's and other large scale events, not your local c tier.
- Numbers continue to be our sports biggest issue. This may not be the answer, but it's an attempt to increase numbers
- This will not be in effect for the worlds in 2018.
I understand that. How are you not sure of my point? I've played numerous tournaments over 8 years and only heard one person over 40 voice their complaint about the 10 year age gap of their protected division.
_MTL_
Flippy Flopper
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2008
- Messages
- 3,515
This makes more sense than the way you originally put it. Thanks for clarifying. I see what you are saying now.
jrawk
* Ace Member *
However, this change now gives them the opportunity to. :|
da Crippler
Eagle Member
I can't wait to see what kind of chaos this creates at age-protected tournaments next year. I'll be in a different division, but I don't know about the rest of the guys as I don't know their actual ages, only that they're between 60 and 70. It could get interesting when they find out who they DON'T have to compete against anymore, and you just might see some different names on top of the leader board at some of these masters tourneys.
teemkey
* Ace Member *
First, Get off my lawn!
That said, I doubt there will be much experimentation as the elder divisions will not be offered in the vast majority of tournaments (as said above). TDs are biased toward to 20-40 year old demographic because those divisions can be relied on to fill quickly. A TD doesn't want the uncertainty of a slow fill or the hassle of reassigning players, nor does a TD want to to buy additional trophies or have other division specific duties or expenses.
This is fact in the Portland area, and extends to the further end of rating protected divisions -- we rarely see MA3 and virtually never see MA4 (or juniors).
I would like to see the PDGA require state coordinators to actively promote at least one sanctioned tournament a year with all divisions represented -- or at least offered. Maybe a subsidized state championship?
