New Course

[J-Man]

Hey, thought I'd give you guys a look at a brand new course just outside Portland, Oregon. It's on an old homestead site known as Hornings Hideaway, their property includes a trout lake, and stage that hosts multiple day music festivals, complete with camping. The pics were taken by a buddy, some are a bit blurry, but you'll get the idea. Very touch oriented, with two of the best laid out par 4s I've ever had the pleasure to play. The owner, Bob, is planning another 18 by September and yet another 18 ready for play by 2009. Can you believe it, three 18 hole courses just 12 miles from my home...
http://www.odsa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8867&start=0

 

[ferretdance03]

I want to live there. Room for 54 disc golf holes, and stages for music? I'd never leave!

 

[Eric O]

Horning's rocks! There aren't two par 4's though.

The other day I was putting for the three on 13 both rounds I played, and I definitely have no big D in my game. Neither putt stuck in the chains tho. heh.

What I love about the course is so many of the holes are in tight woods but have well defined fairways. Accurate throws are rewarded with deuces and poorly aimed throws can punish you badly. There are 7 holes where I'm throwing a putter off the tee. Fun.

 

[Eric O]

I realize the debate on the par listings for 13 and 18 has been done to death on the ODSA board, but there is one point nobody really addressed in that discussion.

Sure, you could probably make a reasonable argument to set both those holes at par 4, but if those were the only holes you adjusted, you would end up with >par 54. I think par 54 for the course is somewhere between reasonable and forgiving, so it is quite fair to have a couple holes be extremely difficult pars, since there are easy deuce opportunities all over the course.

 

[J-Man]

My only response to the par 3 or 4 question is to use the PGDA criteria, hole 13 is a par 3 only for 1000 rated players, and 18 is a par 4 for 1000 rated players, period. So for just about 98% of the PDX golfers those holes are legit par 4s. I just can't understand the fear of so many DGers to admit that a 4 is a fine score on longer holes that combine elevation and mandos. I especially love the argument based on math, if you can't figure a stroke or two above or below par (54 or 56) you are worse at math than most fifth graders, so we won't be looking to you to find any economic solutions to anything, let alone balance your bank account. And a course par of greater than 54, so what. Try that 'everything is a par 3' argument on any stick course and see how far it gets you, good luck with that by the way. Hornings is a tremendous course with two holes that fit the PGDA requirements to be legitimate par 4s, sorry if adding 2 strokes to the course par points out your educational challenges. And bottom line, in tournament play it is stroke count anyway, so par really doesn't matter.

 

[Cgkdisc]

While I agree thise sound like legit par 4s, if I'm playing that course recreationally without scorecards, I'll call them 3s to keep scoring simpler. if it's a torunament or league with scorecards, sounds like those should be 4s on the card.

Even courses with five or six par 4s and 5s, it's still easier to keep score in your head with all par 3s. Once you get to a course with a real par over 65 like at Highbridge, then you call everything a par 4 when you don't have a card. However, it's so much easier to keep score with scorecards once you play a course over par 60 when you sometimes take 7s or 8s on a few holes.

 

[rwmurrow]

are those all homemade baskets?

 

[GorillaTactics]

looks like they'd work....although no jamming a disc through the side on a low ace run, that's for sure. Worthdan might have problems on this one... :lol:

 

[Midnightbiker]

Those are bad ass looking baskets and a cool looking course.

 

[J-Man]

The baskets are all home made, but to actual PGDA specs, Bob,the owner, has sent off the specs and photos to garner PDGA approval for sanctioned tourneys. As to par, again, anybody out there ever play stick golf?, well the way you attack a hole that is a par 3 is different than a par 4 or 5. That's the point I'm making here as well, you play a higher par hole differently...it adds to the game folks. As for ease of scoring, as long as you know your current score (above or below par) and you know the par of the hole you are playing, why is it so difficult to add or subtract 1 or 2 strokes, shit you guys are smoking the good stuff. I must be the only old timer that remembers courses that had 2 par 4s and one par 5 for every nine holes. Just another opportunity to say, "some parts of growing older make me question whether it's worth it or not."
Peace my DG brothers.
J
ps. Those baskets make a great tone when struck

 

[Eric O]

They are homemade, and they are awesome. Could use slightly heavier gauge chain, but still awesome.

J-Man, I didn't mean to make you get defensive about the par settings by giving my opinion of it. I just don't think Horning's plays tougher than par 54 for the entire 18. That's all.

 

[J-Man]

No worries Eric, I'm resigned to the fact that the younger DG generation just doesn't get it, and that's fine. And you know I don't play tourneys so I don't worry much about stroke play, but I play all my rounds and keep score, don't throw mullies, and stay casual yet serious in mind; I like higher pars, based on hole difficulty not the course difficulty, because it adds depth to how I play the hole. I hear tell that there are changes on the way from the PDGA (so I guess people will listen as they make the rules) that will bring back par 4s and 5s on courses coast to coast, sooner the better imho. Math courses optional, j/k

 

[Cgkdisc]

J-Man, I didn't mean to make you get defensive about the par settings by giving my opinion of it. I just don't think Horning's plays tougher than par 54 for the entire 18. That's all.

That's true for most courses though. The SSA or what a 1000 rated player will shoot is usually under 54 on most par 54 courses and on most that have pars set up to 5 shots higher than 54. It still doesn't mean the pars are "wrong" to be higher than 3 per hole. Just easier for scoring with no card, that's all.

 

[Ziggy]

Read it through the grapevine that there might be a 2009 Oregon Deaf Disc Golf tournament at this location.

)

 

[Micah1]

Definite par four's a three feels like a birdy and a 2 would be a fairway ace, just cause some of the other holes are jump putts doesn't mean these aren't par 4's.

 

[worthdan]

looks like they'd work....although no jamming a disc through the side on a low ace run, that's for sure. Worthdan might have problems on this one... :lol:

true :lol:

 

[Eric O]

No worries Eric, I'm resigned to the fact that the younger DG generation just doesn't get it, and that's fine.

Well maybe I'll catch up with you out at Horning's one of these days, and you can show me a few of those tricks you old dogs use. :mrgreen:

13 and 18 are both outstanding disc golf holes. Cheers to that.

 

[Will Aubrey]

I have never gotten how it is easier for scoring with no card. Let's say you have a hole that you almost never get a 3 on. But you get a 4 there most of the time. If you play it as a 3 you almost always have to add a stroke there to your +/-. if you play it as a 4 you don't have to add a stroke your to +/- most of the time. And at the end of the round you add or subtract your +/- to the course par. It's not easier to play them as 3's. It's a just a habit that people have and a bad habit at that because it causes some people to dislike longer holes and it makes others make unsound decisions on occasion because they are trying for a risky 3 when a safe 4 would be the better play.

If you want people to play accept that not all holes are 3's you need to change the basic mindset. You can't say - They are 3's unless it's a tournament or people will never get it.