Ninja

[JR]

Gateway Assassin is a fairway driver to distance driver tweener. The one I have in E 169 ain't what the manufacturer claims. It's got very good glide but not any better than existing discs. Dunno about S plastic Assassins. If you compare an A Assassin in glide to a Valk that is olde you can't honestly claim that there's any novelty value in the Assassin. It may be worse than the Valk and for a different flight path I'd take a light R Pro Boss or a Katana and compare their glide to an E Assassin and even less claim there's something new about it. I don't know if Assassins have changed since the first run that mine is from. I actually liked an Apache better out of the drivers Gateway released last year. Slightly more HSS Champ Leopard in E plastic. Maybe a little faster and longer as well. Still can't handle headwinds but what can that has such a minimal fade? For my taste and general disc golf usage I prefer the E Apache over every other Gateway driver. Because if you take similar discs from other manufacturers every other Gateway driver is bested more by competition. An Apache may well be sharing the top performance with few discs from other manufacturers. Competing realistically for top spot in class is always respectable indeed.

 

[discgolfer#1]

So what are your views on the ninja or have you tried one yet. I know a lot of people are harping on the fact that the PDGA does not approve of it, but i found it fun to throw and I own multiples of almost every disc so I had to buy and try it.

 

[JR]

I don't think I'm gonna get one I'll wait for approved models to roll out. If I wanted fast and flippy I'd toss my Discwing QK2. That disc turns the nose angle down automatically at the apex so user skill is not required :-D Too bad it is also pig LSS along with fast which makes it crash to earth fast. But I've gained power since I last threw it so now it just might be more usable for field D.

 

[abcd]

It's not approved thus I have zero interest in it.

 

[MOB47]

It sucks anyway abcd. you aren't missing anything

 

[Chucktown]

I don't think the Ninja was intended to be illegal by the PDGA specs. When I had originaly heard of the disc it was advertised as max everything. That being said I work in rotational molding and there is one thing that is a hard fact when it comes to plastics and that is that it shrinks when cooling. I think that the disc came out of the mold large and they exspected it to shrink a bit when it cooled. However sometimes due to the shape of the product it may not have shrank as much as they would have liked, so they put it on the market anyway to make up for the money put into the casting for the disc. Gateway is planning on putting out a legal version of the disc some time in the future. In my previous post I stated that the PDGA should revise some of their specs because if they stand where they are we will not advance any further into new designs. Lets face it if we put a stop to innovation then we will be at a stand still. I'm not saying lets just throw whatever we want on the field but to stick to certain specs and never revise them would limit the sport.

The Ninja was absolutely made to be illegal by PDGA standards. It was definitely not a mistake. The flight plate was made to be thin so that most of the weight would be towards the outside. It's really a great marketing idea, because Dave will be have a bigger share of the disc market because there will be plenty of disc golfers attracted to Gateway discs because of the Ninja, whether or not it is illegal, as long as it goes far. I have not heard of a PDGA approved version yet, but you probably know a lot more than I do, I have not stopped by the Gateway shop in at least 4 months to get the latest news.

After reading the "Guidelines for Discs Manufactured for PDGA Competition" I agree, it could be helpful to loosen the rules to allow discs to progress, but I cannot confidently say which ones need to change because I don't completely understand which part of the discs they are talking about.

 

[discgolfer#1]

Yeah the rules on discs can be a little confusing on parts. The turbo putter was approved then banned later on. The PDGA allowed the disc to be used all the way to the end of 08. That just tells me that they pick and choose what they see fit sometimes. Like I said before when I had originaly heard of the ninja it was advertised as max everything that may have changed though, I heard there was problems with the mold. Maybe if the casual players demand rises for these kind of illegal discs there may be call for some revisions to the specs. I do agree however with the banning of the turbo putter because it isn't realy even a disc since it doesn't have a disc shape to it. There will have to be limits but they may want to rethink some of them.

 

[matchu]

I could see promoting something to non pdga members, seeing how anything non innova or discraft gets hated on. so why not market players who are not prejudice against your product before even seeing it or throwing.

btw, I have not thrown the ninja. I have lost just about all my drivers. I suppose I can go to the field I lost two latest drivers, my assassin and blurr.

 

[discspeed]

I don't know if anyone has noticed but the wing width does make a disc fly further.

This is true, but it is only a half-truth...The whole truth is that wider wings allow discs to go further with ever increasing force. So while Avery Jenkins can only throw a putter 50' farther than me, a Teebird 100' further than me, he can throw a Boss 200' more than me. They capped wing width because it provides a bigger boost for the biggest arms in our sport than everyone else, and they did not want the focus of disc golf to shift any more from skill to power. It was this same spirit of the game (skill over power) that the first regulations in our sport regarding disc design (weight) were made. Before they made weight restrictions, the disc companies at the time were putting out really heavy discs between 200-300 grams that could be heaved farther by the very strongest of throwers as they were easier to put pure power into and not turn. These discs did not benefit skill players whatsoever and gave the strongest guys an unfair advantage. In my opinion, true advancement of disc technology involves getting discs to go farther with the same force.

Yeah the rules on discs can be a little confusing on parts. The turbo putter was approved then banned later on. The PDGA allowed the disc to be used all the way to the end of 08. That just tells me that they pick and choose what they see fit sometimes. Like I said before when I had originaly heard of the ninja it was advertised as max everything that may have changed though, I heard there was problems with the mold. Maybe if the casual players demand rises for these kind of illegal discs there may be call for some revisions to the specs. I do agree however with the banning of the turbo putter because it isn't realy even a disc since it doesn't have a disc shape to it. There will have to be limits but they may want to rethink some of them.

It's not that the PDGA picks and chooses what they see fit...Quest's completely outside of the box designs(turbo putt, wheel) forced the PDGA to actually define what a disc is (all current sports have fairly rigid specs for their equipment). I think this is a good thing and would have happened sooner or later no matter what.

 

[JHern]

It's really a great marketing idea, because Dave will be have a bigger share of the disc market because there will be plenty of disc golfers attracted to Gateway discs because of the Ninja, whether or not it is illegal, as long as it goes far....

That's why we see so many players throwing Aerobie rings out on the course, right?

 

[jnecessary]

It's really a great marketing idea, because Dave will be have a bigger share of the disc market because there will be plenty of disc golfers attracted to Gateway discs because of the Ninja, whether or not it is illegal, as long as it goes far....

That's why we see so many players throwing Aerobie rings out on the course, right?

That is a terrible comparison. When is the last time you fit an aerobie ring into your golf bag? For 90% of people playing disc golf the ninja is just another golf disc that goes a long ways.

People lose sight of how small a community competitive disc golf really is.

 

[discspeed]

We got some of these in. It feels so unnatural I don't think I could even grip it to throw properly. Not to mention ours still had some kind of grease on them from the molding process. They were all heavy as well (178+). The bottom wing is almost table top flat and it domes up huge in the middle I think I'm just going to pass on this one altogether.

 

[Muddyboots]

This topic seems to be a bit of a lightning rod. My first thought, having not seen or thrown a Ninja, is that I don't see the point in making a disc that would be disallowed by the governing body of a sport. There were several good points made to this affect, about market share of rec players (large) and relevance of the rest of us (small, yet willing to buy lots of discs). Kind of makes you wonder who the companies are targeting. I still don't fully appreciate the idea, but I must admit that it exists. Not to stir the pot too much, but in college baseball, players use an aluminum bat, whilst in the MLB, it is wood only. There is room in sports for differing views on equipment. Perhaps there is even something to be learned from these "experimental" discs. I would say that of the feasible technological advancements in our sport, the potential for new exciting materials trumps a larger wing. Discspeed also put it well. I have spent a long time working on my form, and don't really want someone who is more "athletic" (read: stronger) leaping ahead of me. Good discussion.
KP

 

[JHern]

They should have stamped in permanent ink "ILLEGAL" in big block letters across all the first run Ninjas. That would have given the disc some street cred, and maybe even helped sales because they could become collector's items (cha-ching!).

...Not to stir the pot too much, but in college baseball, players use an aluminum bat, whilst in the MLB, it is wood only. There is room in sports for differing views on equipment... KP

Agreed. Look at cars, boats, planes, or any other kind of racing...tons of designations. (Of course, even the top level Formula 1 still has strict rules and restrictions.)

What if somebody comes up with a wicked throwing device that will huck any disc super far? Like in the sport of jai alai, with that wicker deal they can throw f-ing hard as hell (188 mph)...that sure changes the way you think about throwing balls after seeing that! What if you could huck a disc that fast? Wouldn't you want to try it? A lot of people would try that out if they could. And this would be an ideal way to incorporate long ball golf courses into the game of disc golf...imagine a par 3 300+ yard hole on your favorite ball golf course.

 

[AciDBatH666]

They should have stamped in permanent ink "ILLEGAL" in big block letters across all the first run Ninjas. That would have given the disc some street cred, and maybe even helped sales because they could become collector's items (cha-ching!).

...Not to stir the pot too much, but in college baseball, players use an aluminum bat, whilst in the MLB, it is wood only. There is room in sports for differing views on equipment... KP

Agreed. Look at cars, boats, planes, or any other kind of racing...tons of designations. (Of course, even the top level Formula 1 still has strict rules and restrictions.)

What if somebody comes up with a wicked throwing device that will huck any disc super far? Like in the sport of jai alai, with that wicker deal they can throw f-ing hard as hell (188 mph)...that sure changes the way you think about throwing balls after seeing that! What if you could huck a disc that fast? Wouldn't you want to try it? A lot of people would try that out if they could. And this would be an ideal way to incorporate long ball golf courses into the game of disc golf...imagine a par 3 300+ yard hole on your favorite ball golf course.

Well the ninja I have has "Not Intended for PDGA play" right on the stamp.
And there's parts of the rule book that speculate no tools or devices can be used to throw the disc. I'm sure you're just posting to show a scenario, but just thought I'd chime in.

Ever seen vids of people getting hit in the face in jai alai!?! Shit's CRAZY!

 

[MOB47]

There is a disc throwing device that some people made. I thought there was a thread on here about it a while back. There was a video on you tube showing it in use too. Does anyone else remember this. It was kinda like the those ball throwers for dogs. You would put the discs on the end of this flinger thing and whip it and it would launch it far.

 

[jubuttib]

Skeet shooters have used that sort of things for years, shouldn't be difficult to implement properly.