Orion LF vs. Avenger

[Spinach D1]

1. Can someone (by that I mean Ted Damson) re-explain the difference in molds and stability of the 1.1 and 1.2 MOLF, SOLF, and QOLF? Is it really a Firebird bottom? If so, doesn;t that make it a speed 9 disc (I've heard others call it speed 10 and higher)?

2. How does the 1.1 QOLF compare to the 1.1 MOLFs and 1.1 SOLFs?

3. Has the Avenger changed at all between runs?

4. Which do you prefer between the various Avengers and OLFs and why?


I currently throw 1.1 MOLFs and 1.1 SOLFs. They are about the same in my opinion, except that the SOLFs wear slower. I like them a lot, but it seems the mold has been altered. I have had 1.2 SOLFs and I thought they were OK, but I preferred a new 1.1 MOLF or 1.1 SOLF. I'm sure that there is not a shortage of either on the market, but I am considering stocking up. I have never thrown a QOLF of any kind.

I used to throw X Avengers, and I recall they start more stable (expescially in the LSS department) but when very beat end up understable and great for long turnovers. Is this recollection about right?

I have never owned a Z Avenger, but I'm told that they are quite stable. How about the FLX and ESP? I played with someone that was crushing the FLX Avenger one day. It definately had me curious.

 

[Jesse B 707]

1. the 1.1 OLF (all plastics) is the flat top run that we all know and love, the 1.2 SOLF and QOLF are the same mold they just came out with more dome so....more stable than 1.1.
Yes it is a firebird bottom....but a starfire top soooo its a 9.5 speed disc

2. 1.1 Qolf is more overstable than a 1.1 SOLF (not by too much) and way more stable than a 1.1 MOLF

3.NO, but there is huger varience in runs in premium plastics, they are all over the place.....flat = Pred, domier = better

4.I love all OLFs, what i throw is a 172 1.2 SOLF for my beefy one and a 170 1.1 MOLF for hyzer flips and annys, I like Avengers alot too but the Z and ESP are too inconsistent to deal with, X are money

 

[Anonymous]

1. the 1.1 OLF (all plastics) is the flat top run that we all know and love, the 1.2 SOLF and QOLF are the same mold they just came out with more dome so....more stable than 1.1.
Yes it is a firebird bottom....but a starfire top soooo its a 9.5 speed disc

2. 1.1 Qolf is more overstable than a 1.1 SOLF (not by too much) and way more stable than a 1.1 MOLF

just wanted to add that there are domey 1.1's out there. The first two I got were domey while the rest i've got since then are flat topped. The original domey 1.1's are very similar to the new Q/S 1.2's while the flat 1.1's are noticeably less stable. Im only talking about the QOLF and SOLF, never thrown a MOLF.

I havent found there to be much of a difference between Q and Sirius plastic stability wise, except Q will hold its stability for a longer time period. From my experience the biggest factor in OLF stability is the dome. This is what you should look for.

The domey ones are by far the most consistent fliers IMO, but the flat ones are easier to flatten and make really nice Max D discs. I like em all.

 

[Jesse B 707]

usually domey 1.1s are in the mid to upper 160s

 

[DiscGolfTeeSigns.com]

Orion nerding? You got it...

All Orion LFs on Earth (except MOLF 1.2) are Firebird-X bottom, with a Starfire/Wraith/Destroyer top. The MOLF 1.2 has a TeeRex top on a Firebird-X bottom.

Relative stabilities from most to least stable:

1.2 QOLF
1.2 SOLF
1.2 MOLF
bar-stamp QOLF (super rare)
bar-stamp SOLF
bar-stamp MOLF (super rare)
1.1 QOLF
1.1 SOLF
1.1 MOLF
... anything freakishly domey will be more stable than the norm. domey 160g 1.1 QOLF was my go-to overstable LF.


Factoids:

- Bar-stamped SOLF and QOLF and MOLF are from the 1.1 runs, but the stamp's shape gives them a little extra stability (a slightly different dome than stock-stamped 1.1s). That's why people think these bar-stamps are a proto run... not true... same run as 1.1 stocks. The domes are stamped/flattened unevenly.

- There is plenty of dome variation in 1.1 SOLF and QOLF. Heavier ones are more prone to flat domes, light 160s can get mega domey and stable, but any 160-169 can dome up. That particular range was the most inconsistent, with flats vs domeys and clears vs opaques, and all combinations of those seemingly adjacent within the run.

- 1.1 SOLF QOLF and MOLF were all run at the same time, in late 2005 or early 2006, and stored for separate releases over two years or so. The mold was prototyped only in Q plastic, at the same time that the Orion LS and Orion LR (aka Roadrunner) were proto'd and tested... around 2004.

- 1.2 SOLF and QOLF were run at the same time, in mid 2007. They have a bigger dome than ever before, which makes them significantly more stable. Same mold as 1.1 .

- 1.2 MOLF was run with a Teerex top instead of the Wraith top (early 2008). It's faster in the air, but the stability is very close to a domey LF, like a 1.2 S/Q. No decision that I'm aware of to keep or drop this mold for future runs of M/Q/S. However, changing the top is easier than controlling that awesome dome. Besides the 1.2 MOLF run, this mold was proto'd in S and M in small numbers, around 50 total.

- Many 1.2 QOLF were falsely stamped as first-runs. Only the pen marking on the back will properly ID the run... a 1.1 is marked "QOF" and a 1.2 is marked "QOLF". Same 3/4-letter difference in SOLFs. (this is useful for ID'ing the Walmart discs where I removed run numbers from all the stamps) I found none of this mishap in SOLF or MOLF... those are all stamped correctly with 1.1 and 1.2 stamps.

- Most (as in all but a dozen) 150g 1.1 QOLF went to Japan. If you've got a 150g that has the pen marking "QOF", that's rare. Most 150g will be stamped as 1.1, but the marking is "QOLF" and they are really 1.2's. The Japanese kind is $$ and gummy.

- 1.1 150g MOLF are $$ but there are only 120 of them in circulation. 1.2 MOLF has plenty of 150g but I found them less magical. A light/beat MOLF will flip and go for hours before fading.

 

[DiscGolfTeeSigns.com]

4. Which do you prefer between the various Avengers and OLFs and why?

from having WAY too many OLFs, but not that big of an arm... (a heavy 1.1 QOLF is overstable for me, and without a headwind I don't usually flip anything less than a beat 170ish SOLF, a worn MOLF, or a lighter QOLF)

My favorites of the bunch:

- a worn 1.1 SOLF around 170g... a little flippy but workable, and always fades

- worn 1.1 QOLF around 167g... same as above, but a little more stable and fadey. 175g for sidearms, "Junior Firebird".

- huge fan of the LF at 150g. The S had kind of a weird feel for 1.1 and better in 1.2, but I loved the Q and M at 150g. The M 150g would beat into a fantastic flipper/glider... my longest throws ever, by a good margin. Also in a decent headwind with enough height, I could keep them from the turn-n-burn. The 150g Q was stable but could be muscled.

- 160-range domey 1.1 QOLF are awesome, because they're so beefy but light enough to muscle.

- worn 170g MOLF earned a spot in my no-Millennium bag, it's so good. Long and easy to throw, very workable. Thank god it's a tourny stamp 8)

- 1.2 stuff in low 160s was all I could handle... I didn't need more stability but I played many a round with bigger-arm people who got killed in the wind, so I understand the flippy problem. That said, I only liked the 1.2 stuff at 163g and below, and I think a 150g QOLF was the only 1.2 that ever made it into my bag.

 

[SkaBob]

3. Has the Avenger changed at all between runs?

I used to throw X Avengers, and I recall they start more stable (expescially in the LSS department) but when very beat end up understable and great for long turnovers. Is this recollection about right?

I have never owned a Z Avenger, but I'm told that they are quite stable. How about the FLX and ESP? I played with someone that was crushing the FLX Avenger one day. It definately had me curious.

There are different Avenger molds used, so the question about changes between runs is a little misleading... The tourney stamped ESP ones are a different mold that's 1.7 stability, where the production models are 1.8. The 1.7 mold has changed since I got my first one. I have one from DGLO 3 years ago that's different in dome shape (not dominess, the shape of the dome is notably different, and less round on the new ones I have) and the shape of the notch. The new ones are more stable. Other than that, I'm not sure the mold has changed so much as the plastics...FLX changed the whole spectrum of ESP plastics, for example...They ALL got softer after FLX came out. Things like that will affect how they fly from era to era, but probably not enough to really affect the usefulness of the disc.

You remember right with the X Avengers, in any case.

The Z Avengers are a completely different animal. If the Avenger was my primary driver, I'd keep the Z one in my bag for windier days. The difference between X and Z Avengers is like the difference between the Surge and the Pulse. It's not overstable enough that I wouldn't still carry a Tsunami or Pred or something for the very overstable role, but SIGNIFICANTLY more stable than the ESP, which is probably the next most stable plastic it comes in. Bigger arms (450+ on average) like the Z one for a control-driver-like role in their bag.

The FLX one is fun, and straighter out of the box than the ESP one. Both beat in straight, and eventually flippy, but the ESP one takes longer to get there and starts out more stable. It's easier to get a huge huck on an FLX one because it's easier to grip...at least, that's what I got from it. I stopped throwing the FLX because I saw how quickly my FLX Surge beat from usable to utterly flippy and useless. I've since thrown the ESP farther than I ever threw the FLX one, around 380 or so, so it's not that it can't be long or anything... Honestly though, I prefer the ESP one out of all of them. It has a great balance between grip and stability, especially in the softer blends of ESP. I've been really enjoying the "ESP Green" ones lately...get a domey one though, these flat ones I have are a little less glidey than the domey older ones I have...

 

[Fazor1]

I'm looking for a 1.2 SOLF 170+

Any of you guys have any for sale/trade?

Let me know, thanks.

 

[SkaBob]

http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=7

http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/search.php

 

[ferretdance03]

I don't want to start a new thread, so I'm gonna sidejack this one...

Anyone thrown both MOLF/SOLF and Discmania PD?
Similarities? Differences? Strengths of one over weaknesses of the other?
Discuss please.

 

[Timko]

PD - higher power requirement, more HSS, more LSS
OLF - more workable (due to the HSS), more glide

Both are fantastic discs. I like the PD, but that's because I feel more confident throwing it on a flex shot line than the OLF.

 

[Midnightbiker]

I have both, and I get more distance out of my OLF.

 

[Timko]

I have both, and I get more distance out of my OLF.

Yea, that too .

 

[Jesse B 707]

i feel like they are close but different enough that you could get away with throwing both if you wanted, it would be like a wraith Trex combo except the one thats supposed to be overstable actually is

 

[cmlasley]

it would be like a wraith Trex combo except the one thats supposed to be overstable actually is

Oh, Snap!

 

[domromer]

Oh sweet another OLF love thread.

 

[Aaron_D]

I hope they keep the 1.2 MOLF as is...it really captures the 1.1 SOLF flight perfectly except its a little longer. I find the break in sufficiently slow...I have been using the same 2 for almost 6 months and they are still reliably stable.

 

[RoomTenONine]

- Many 1.2 QOLF were falsely stamped as first-runs. Only the pen marking on the back will properly ID the run... a 1.1 is marked "QOF" and a 1.2 is marked "QOLF". Same 3/4-letter difference in SOLFs. (this is useful for ID'ing the Walmart discs where I removed run numbers from all the stamps) I found none of this mishap in SOLF or MOLF... those are all stamped correctly with 1.1 and 1.2 stamps.

Wow, I just checked my 1.1 and 1.2 QOLFs. This is right on the money. No 1.2s disguised as 1.1s here.

 

[JBinAZ]

Orion nerding? You got it...

I just acquired a white 150 OLF with a bar stamp and I cannot figure out if it is M or S plastic. The only marking on the back is 150. I thought maybe you could help me ID it. Thanks!

 

[Steady 26542]

Orion nerding? You got it...

I just acquired a white 150 OLF with a bar stamp and I cannot figure out if it is M or S plastic. The only marking on the back is 150. I thought maybe you could help me ID it. Thanks!

Since it's a Bar Stamp how do you know it's an OLF? It should have SOF Near the 150 on the bottom, if it's a Sirius OLF. I haven't seen a Bar Stamped 150 MOLF.