Par 3's vs 4's & 5's

[Mando]

I'm a relatively new intermediate, but I just don't see the attraction of
par 4's and 5's. Why do folks want to emulate ball golf, when par 3's are perfect for disc golf ? I've yet to play a par 4 or 5 that was more fun than a par 3.

 

[tstack10]

I've played par 4s and 5s that really took me that many shots but others where it was way too easy. There is good pdga table explaining what should be the par for a hole with varied terrain and length. Makes the most sense to me and I'll try to find it but hope someone beats me to it.

There have been similar threads maybe prerube or someone will link them in here.
Good question!

 

[magictenor1]

variety. Why should there only be par 3's. We will always have a link to ball golf because that's where our sport came from. we don't have to be exactly like it but there are similarities. There are some other threads going on right now where similar topics are being discussed. For me I like when there are some different type holes other than just all 3's.

 

[drumn4life0789]

hole 3 harry myers in rockwall texas. Play that hole and tell me it wasnt fun.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Playing par 3s is more like bowling where you can learn to repeat the same shot with the same disc most of the time on each hole other than windy, or even on windy days. Your tee shot will always land in a slightly or largely different position on par 4s and 5s requring you to make a new judgment on what to do on the next throw each time. That's true golf. Now maybe that's not as fun for you and many others who prefer the precision of disc golf "bowling" on mostly reachable par 3s rather than the scrambling and new challenges presented each time involved with par 4s and 5s. There's something for everyone in the rich diversity of courses and par 4s & 5s have their place even if par 3s might be the most popular.

 

[Jukeshoe]

What is Par?

I believe this is the main thread discussing the matter.

 

[Mando]

I suppose that if you have an open course like Deis Hill, 4's and 5's do serve the purpose of providing some needed variety, but I just don't see what it adds in a wooded setting.

 

[Terry C]

*mando opens can of worms only to find out it is a can of plastic explosives*

I just played a couple courses with par 4-5's. We counted them as 3's. Par dosent really mean anything anyway its all about just getting the least shots.

*terry lurks back into the shadows and creeps away from the par thread*

 

[magictenor1]

cue Olorin

 

[Mando]

Playing par 3s is more like bowling where you can learn to repeat the same shot with the same disc most of the time on each hole other than windy, or even on windy days. Your tee shot will always land in a slightly or largely different position on par 4s and 5s requring you to make a new judgment on what to do on the next throw each time. That's true golf. Now maybe that's not as fun for you and many others who prefer the precision of disc golf "bowling" on mostly reachable par 3s rather than the scrambling and new challenges presented each time involved with par 4s and 5s. There's something for everyone in the rich diversity of courses and par 4s & 5s have their place even if par 3s might be the most popular.

I'm not a pro designer by any stretch, but "playing par 3's is more like bowling" is just not true. The course I did design, Sugaree has a scoring average of 4 or more on 7 par 3's. Scrambling and challenges are not resevered for 4's and 5's. The course was originally a 54 and is now 56.
The par 4's add nothing.

 

[Tolbert]

I suppose that if you have an open course like Deis Hill, 4's and 5's do serve the purpose of providing some needed variety, but I just don't see what it adds in a wooded setting.

That's easy, it adds challenge. New challenge. The challenge of having to make 2-3 fantastic drives before you even think of taking your putter out.

 

[optidiscic]

I suppose that if you have an open course like Deis Hill, 4's and 5's do serve the purpose of providing some needed variety, but I just don't see what it adds in a wooded setting.

This I have to disagree with completely. I am no expert I have never shot par on a quality course but I think most par 54s are inferioror to par 4 and 5 courses. I think par 4s and 5s work best in a wooded setting where a premium on placement, hitting lanes, recovery, and the cerebral part of the game takes precedence. An open hole par 4 or 5 is a waste and very boring.....Thinking everything should be par 3 simplifies the game to a putting contest and reserving par 4s and 5s for open holes simplifies the game to a driving contest. A well designed legit par 65 or above course forces execution, allows for creativity, and most importantly allows more variance in scoring....if your down 4 strokes on a par 54 after 9 holes its essentially over....if your down 4 after 9 on a par 68 course theres plenty of grind and opportunity to come back. With all that being said a good par 54 course is much tougher to design than a good par 72 as you must incorporate severe risk into each hole to create scoring spreads (some mistaken this for gimmickiness)

 

[optidiscic]

Can u tell me and Tolbert are Mid ATlantic Guys...used to the Iron Hills and Nockamixons of the disc golf world!

 

[Easy Tigur]

Par 4's and 5's are a welcome change of pace to me. Variety is always good.

A course in the area has a par 7 or two and its the dumbest thing ever. Even being as horrible as I am, it's easy for me to shoot 5 or 6 on those holes.

 

[vslaugh]

Having not too long ago moved to Pittsburgh and started playing its well-designed and legitimate Par 66-style courses, I have come to love Par 4s and Par 5s. They add a whole new dimension to the strategy because you have to plan out both your drive(s) and approach to the basket. Do you play it safe and leave yourself a longer approach, or do you throw a driver and risk a mess of a second shot for the reward of a good chance at birdie?

They also add variety to a course because you'll be attacking the basket from a different location each time you play the hole, instead of throwing at it from the same tee. Think Hole 15 at Moraine State Park...you can be throwing toward the green from 350' out from on top of the hill, or you could be pitching at it from 100' depending on your drive strategy and execution.

As mentioned above, they also work better statistically for tournaments as (well-designed) Par 4s and Par 5s promote healthy scoring spreads.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I'm not a pro designer by any stretch, but "playing par 3's is more like bowling" is just not true. The course I did design, Sugaree has a scoring average of 4 or more on 7 par 3's.

If that's the case, then it sounds like you've failed to set par properly for the skill level it's designed for. Few par 3s should have a scoring average over 3.5 or so even using the CRP system unless OB is overly punitive.

 

[Dave242]

Here are some "Be the Disc!" videos of a few good/great right angle dogleg holes - two shot/throw holes (some call them par-4's - carding a 3 on any of these holes feels better than almost any deuce on a par-3 hole).

If you slow down/pause the video and slowly advance through the elbow part of the hole you can visualize all the different lines you will be forced to throw on your approach depending on where your drive lands. You will see hopefully what cgkdisc is saying.

Renny Gold #7
Renny #17
Hornet's Nest Web #10
Hornet's Nest #16

Mando, I see on your played list you have not been to these courses - they are close by, so check them out in person

 

[Dave242]

I think just today (maybe yesterday) I saw an interesting post on this topic. This fellow said that he injured himself and could throw no more than 150' (?). So, now all normally reachable holes were reachable with 2 good throws. He said that for him the game was now much more like playing billiards: he had to worry about his shot AND his leave - his setup for his next shot. It is this added dimension that legit 2- and 3-throw holes add to the game.

 

[Tolbert]

Can u tell me and Tolbert are Mid ATlantic Guys...used to the Iron Hills and Nockamixons of the disc golf world!

two of my favorite courses! birdieing any par 4 or 5 on those courses is a blast.

 

[Dave242]

The course I did design, Sugaree has a scoring average of 4 or more on 7 par 3's. Scrambling and challenges are not resevered for 4's and 5's. The course was originally a 54 and is now 56.
The par 4's add nothing.

I have not played your course, but would LOVE to. I have heard great things about it and......you've got the coveted Appalachian beauty thing going on strong! :hfive:

Scrambling is not what 2 throw holes are about. Scrambling is almost always the result of a random bounce into a tricky schule area. 2- and 3- throw holes are about staying on the fairway and minimizing the risk of having to scramble....and yet needing 2 (or 3) throws to get to the pin (although some are designed where a heroic yet risky bomb will get you there in 1 throw - Harold Duval has a lot of these at Winthrop Gold for the USDGC. Go there for the USDGC if you have not been!)