DavidInIowa
Par Member
I think it would have been awesome if a rule had been laid down on the first page that if you wanted to talk rough you first had to say honestly whether you knew the guy or not.
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[Question] Potential tech standards changes?
- Thread starter shawnsinclair
- Start date
I just want him to finish his thought. We are all speculating and Mr. Duvall gave no further explanation in what the heck his point is. Im not an Innova stooge or anything, but I can agree with toning down the drivers. Im sure I can throw a Wraith as, or nearly as, far as a Destroyer. So I could adapt...just as I have adapted to faster drivers in general. Im not even 30 but Ive been playing since I was a kid and I can clearly remember seeing some local guys throwing Eagles 300 feet and just being blown away. So, again, I can deal with the change....
BUT why make it? Sustainability is a pretty broad buzzword. There are plenty of meanings that he could be shooting for. The vagueness is just making this come across as confusing at best and ridiculous at worst.
You know what I want to see? Mr.s Duvall and Dunipace using the platform of SpinTV and making a high quality, 15-minute presentation video for the world to see. Really state their case, with reasoning and facts. Until they take a step like that, we're all left scratching our heads.
BUT why make it? Sustainability is a pretty broad buzzword. There are plenty of meanings that he could be shooting for. The vagueness is just making this come across as confusing at best and ridiculous at worst.
You know what I want to see? Mr.s Duvall and Dunipace using the platform of SpinTV and making a high quality, 15-minute presentation video for the world to see. Really state their case, with reasoning and facts. Until they take a step like that, we're all left scratching our heads.
onemilemore
* Ace Member *
I agree that we are all left scratching our heads, but I am curious how Shawn expected this to turn out by bringing this to the message boards. If he was confused, certainly we would all be confused, too, so I am not sure what is being accomplished entirely here.
This is my own simple observation, as someone who throws cleanly and consistently in the 450 range:
The argument that our older courses are being outdated by faster drivers is just not valid. The "average golfer" who I watch at my local courses honestly do not throw any farther with Destroyers than they do Teebirds. It is only people like myself who are actually helped by faster discs, and I usually throw putters and mids on most of these courses anyway... So there is not this issue where we will need bigger and bigger chunks of land to control all of these "monster drives" being so easy for every joe with a Nuke. It just makes no sense.
So yeah, I am against changing the standards for a lot of reasons, but this particular argument goes completely against everything I have observed as a disc golfer. I also wonder if newer companies who invested significant amounts of cash to produce disc molds would have any grounds for a lawsuit if the standards were suddenly changed. I don't know enough about these sort of laws to have an opinion on that, but it certainly seems very unfair to them, and probably would be good for Innova if all those new companies were just financially demolished by having to reinvest in new molds. (A mold of this size would cost at least 120,000 to produce. source: I am a machinist)
My thoughts on the issue.
The argument that our older courses are being outdated by faster drivers is just not valid. The "average golfer" who I watch at my local courses honestly do not throw any farther with Destroyers than they do Teebirds. It is only people like myself who are actually helped by faster discs, and I usually throw putters and mids on most of these courses anyway... So there is not this issue where we will need bigger and bigger chunks of land to control all of these "monster drives" being so easy for every joe with a Nuke. It just makes no sense.
So yeah, I am against changing the standards for a lot of reasons, but this particular argument goes completely against everything I have observed as a disc golfer. I also wonder if newer companies who invested significant amounts of cash to produce disc molds would have any grounds for a lawsuit if the standards were suddenly changed. I don't know enough about these sort of laws to have an opinion on that, but it certainly seems very unfair to them, and probably would be good for Innova if all those new companies were just financially demolished by having to reinvest in new molds. (A mold of this size would cost at least 120,000 to produce. source: I am a machinist)
My thoughts on the issue.
Again with this crap about Innova being an evil corporation hell bent on destroying every other company?
How much money do you all think is in disc golf anyway? You think that the guys who own Innova are making billions of dollars? That argument is more asinine than the argument about park space. This is not the pharmaceutical industry...disc golf is not dealing in billions or trillions of dollars here. Millions...maybe. For the entire industry. And I can also reason that Innova's bottom line has in no way been effected by Prodigy, MVP, Vibram, Latitude, Westside, RIP, Quest, Prodiscus, et al. Innova has only one competitor: Discraft. And Discraft is not in any kind of position to really effect Innova either.
Discraft is kept healthy by big box stores on Ultimate Frisbee. Innova is kept healthy because you can buy an Innova disc anywhere. All other companies are left with the scraps. So anyone who thinks this is some master plan by Innova to take over the disc golf world, open your eyes: It's been Innova's world since the mid-80s.
How much money do you all think is in disc golf anyway? You think that the guys who own Innova are making billions of dollars? That argument is more asinine than the argument about park space. This is not the pharmaceutical industry...disc golf is not dealing in billions or trillions of dollars here. Millions...maybe. For the entire industry. And I can also reason that Innova's bottom line has in no way been effected by Prodigy, MVP, Vibram, Latitude, Westside, RIP, Quest, Prodiscus, et al. Innova has only one competitor: Discraft. And Discraft is not in any kind of position to really effect Innova either.
Discraft is kept healthy by big box stores on Ultimate Frisbee. Innova is kept healthy because you can buy an Innova disc anywhere. All other companies are left with the scraps. So anyone who thinks this is some master plan by Innova to take over the disc golf world, open your eyes: It's been Innova's world since the mid-80s.
Just trying to make the point: why would Innova try to put little companies out of business? They already own disc golf (more or less). Id be willing to say Innova and Discraft make up at least 90 percent of disc sales. Maybe more. They have no need to put anyone out of business.
Whatever Mr. Duvall ia proposing, he's doing it for what he believes to be the good of the sport....not some crazy moneygrab like people on here like to think.
Depending on materials used for the mold, you could be looking at up to 40k for just the steel. All molds are expensive. Even the molds used to make small things like light switch plates are about the size of a microwave. Blocks of tool steel are not cheap. They might be able to work out a contract with someone who would give them a mold at cost in exchange for the contract to run the pieces. That would make it more affordable for them potentially. Deals like that are not uncommon. Either way, it is a massive investment. That is all I'm saying. Would suck for prodigy...
It would, but I think the consensus is their best discs are the mids and putters anyway. Ive seen a lot of people with the drivers but they dont seem to stay in too many bags. People get hooked on the mids and putters though. It might have something to do with wide rimmed stuff being harder to be consistent? I dunno I have no factual basis for that, it just seems the high speed stuff from every company tends to have more variations.
Lurp Nuts
* Ace Member *
this thread was hard to browse. so much nonsense 
i'm just glad high speed drivers are under review.
i'm just glad high speed drivers are under review.
scarwig
Eagle Member
I guarantee that a lot of this is driven by pending lawsuits and legal fees associated with disc related injuries. our litigious society is drawn to sue the biggest cash cow when it comes to injury lawsuits. Who has the most money? the college kid throwing a disc or the manufacturer?
Think about how many high speed drivers Innova sells. then think about how many idiots/sue happy nutjobs there are out there. THEN, think about how many half baked lawyers there are. The likelihood of a disc golf related injury "at the hands of" an Innova disc seems pretty high, no?
There was an incident in my area that an individual is suing everyone from individuals in league, to a shop that sells discs, all the way up to the PDGA and Innova . The man that was hit with a max weight boss in the face lost an eye. He is also a nutjob that ran through the course with twin hatchets. Sometimes he played full rounds without discs. He would always just jog up from behind a group and run right through the teebox His shaky safety track record isnt enough to deter his attorney who has managed to drag this out for the past 3 years.
I would be interested to see how much money a big company like Innova shells out for legal fees a year....
Think about how many high speed drivers Innova sells. then think about how many idiots/sue happy nutjobs there are out there. THEN, think about how many half baked lawyers there are. The likelihood of a disc golf related injury "at the hands of" an Innova disc seems pretty high, no?
There was an incident in my area that an individual is suing everyone from individuals in league, to a shop that sells discs, all the way up to the PDGA and Innova . The man that was hit with a max weight boss in the face lost an eye. He is also a nutjob that ran through the course with twin hatchets. Sometimes he played full rounds without discs. He would always just jog up from behind a group and run right through the teebox His shaky safety track record isnt enough to deter his attorney who has managed to drag this out for the past 3 years.
I would be interested to see how much money a big company like Innova shells out for legal fees a year....
turbosteve
Eagle Member
Has the PDGA been sued before by somebody who has been hit by a disc?
Mr. America
* Ace Member *
So after reading a few random pages of this, I can't figure out what's going on.
WTF was the problem in the OP, and what was he suggesting be done?
WTF was the problem in the OP, and what was he suggesting be done?
Colt
Birdie Member
Here is my response to potential wide rim disc being banned b/c of there risk for danger aka safety issues.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/golf-...rrant-shot-tags-volunteer-head-215142629.html
Grow up pdga, every sport has inherent dangers
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/golf-...rrant-shot-tags-volunteer-head-215142629.html
Grow up pdga, every sport has inherent dangers
Mr. America
* Ace Member *
Who at the PDGA measures rim width? I am looking at a Waith vs. a Sword in my hands right now and the Wraith's rims are clearly wider than my Swords, yet the PDGA states that it is the other way around.
What idiot at the PDGA decides these things?
What idiot at the PDGA decides these things?
I don't think you've been reading the thread. There's a huge difference between someone who is aware they're at an event and assumes some level of risk and a random person in a park who has no idea that they're in the middle of a disc golf course.
Mr. America
* Ace Member *
But ignorance is no excuse when it comes to legal matters is it?
Ignorance of the law isn't. There's no law against being in a park though.
turbosteve
Eagle Member
It also depends if the area that the course is in is multi-use or not.
