Pro's - Fewest discs in the bag - ratio

[thatdirtykid]

I used to play regularly with a guy 960 rated who played with two discs... a destroyer and valk... his rating didn't get much better adding a putter later

 

[BrotherDave]

Seriously, though, I want to hear more about that Cheetah/Aviar dude. Are we sure it wasn't just a Gazelle and a mini? If there was ANY water out there that day, that constitutes a very low space/sac ratio!

Legend has it that he was naturally athletic. And he worked out.

 

[Ziggy]

Legend has it that he was naturally athletic. And he worked out.

And knew how to swear!!

 

[TalbotTrojan]

Hmm, maybe I should consider carrying a lighter bag if the course calls for it. Then again I am going to find myself in that one situation where I would have wanted that one disc that I left out. Pretty sure that is what Feldy thinks. Pretty sure that is what I think.

 

[in4d]

^^ Good point

Theres a couple ways I look at this, number of molds vs. number of discs.. I agree with the number of molds approach as in having different stages of wear between few molds.

Why not have every disc you could need/want along with backups in case you lose the 'Go To'.

If you end up only throwing 3-4 of the 25-30 discs in your bag that round, so what, but its best to be prepared.

At the end of last season i started my own experiment with keeping "consistency controlled in a companion method of cycling molds"... err something like that

I carry 7 molds and 3-4 of each mold at a time... WHAT!?.. let me explain (to many tournament and competitive disc golfers, this might be similar to what you already do)

If possible, I get discs in identical pairs *THIS IS IMPORTANT* (same run, plastic, weight, color, stamp, PLH, dome, etc) and when i play casual rounds i alternate between both to get them both beat in at somewhat of the same rate, i do this by always pulling the left disc and returning the last thrown companion to the right side of its pair (they also beat in slower this way and allow your muscle memory more time to adapt).

Now in a tournament i will usually pick one and use it the entire round, and then if something happens to it i have a backup that SHOULD be close to identical. Also, when they both get beat to the point that it makes sense to get more OS fresh ones back in the bag i take one out and also the previous cycled one and then add a new fresh identical pair leaving in only one from the previous pair. This ensures that i have a beat in version from the previous generation and two "main" workhorse... if you leave in 2 from previous cycle it gets complicated and its bad for your brain (maybe just my brain), just leave one from the previous cycle each time and only use that when you need the broken in flight.

I'm finding this method works best and most quickly for fairway drivers, Like Teebird/Leopard or Rival/Patriot type setups where you already have different stability ranges covered for this speed set so you don't need 3+ stages of wear in a single mold because other molds are filling the spectrum.

In some cases for example people who ONLY throw destroyers for their speed 12 max distance disc it would make more sense to start with a couple types of plastics or even weights that give much different flight patterns aside from the stage of wear.

I Do this with Outlaws and Ghosts right now, carrying 4-5 of them at a time I first find 3 combination that fly differently that i like. So I have 3 main categories, the categories are Beefy OS (Legend), then Straight to OS (Icon), and Flippy(166g yellow icon). I have multiple identical pairs of each 'category' that i start out with, when a mold in it's category gets too beat and doesn't 'fit' anymore, i will add its identical pair (sometimes i have 8-10 identical discs deep in one slot at home on the shelf waiting to be added in a new cycle). Now, sometimes i get a straight to OS category (my white icon outlaws for example) beaten in enough that its turning over a little much and starting to reach over the spectrum to how a fresh disc in the flippier category might fly, but i still leave those in the bag for some time and i just go by touch.. if I feel like 2 discs are overlapping too much and serve the same purpose and cause my head to contemplate, then i drop one or the other immediately, whatever makes sense.. so sometimes i will have 2 beefy OS category molds in at the same time and so on for a short period of time because its beating into the straight to OS category and i like it more than the fresh straight to OS category disc, then i may leave it there, or drop it if i like the current disc in my straight to OS category better. Eventually one categories broken in companion might take over the role of another category of less stability, for example my straight to OS white icons, are going to take over my initial flippy category disc (yellow 166g icon outlaws) because i like the way the ones that start out more OS fly better than ones that start out less OS, so eventually i will be left with 2 root categories of molds and their beaten in companions fill the less OS categories, which is what should happen.

Once you get stages of wear to the point where you can have 2 root plastics that your using for your mold then you can start to use the 2 identical pair method stated above for fairway drivers and apply that to your distance drivers, midranges, etc.. and then you might even leave in broken in categories from two cycles ago to cover stabilities way down the line.. its totally up to you and what you feel is right but moving toward getting your main workhorse stability as an identical pair in the same stage of wear is going to be key.. just takes much more time depending on how you manage your molds.

I have 3 root midrange molds right now, pinnacle aqua ghosts, Icon white ghosts, and Gravity White Ghosts.. eventually the pinnacles will probably overtake the icon and then i can cycle identical pairs of pinnacle AND Gravity hopefully, which will require at least 6 discs total.. but would be worth it.

Its all about keeping overlap and multiple broken in stages of many different plastics/weights from causing your brain to not know which disc it needs to throw and knowing how that disc is going to fly before you throw it.

Maybe im just crazy and the white stuff on the ground is giving me cabin fever.. But at the end of this last season i started this and I was getting consistent results with much more confidence in knowing what was going to happen before i even released the disc, and THAT is what i believe is key to getting to the next level.

It took a couple months to get this cycle process to start working and seeing good results, but sticking with it and prepping your bag in an organized way to give your muscle memory and mind proper time to adjust is PART of what separates the top pros from the rest.

Look at majority of the top pros ITB and they get a glint in their eye when they talk about the molds in their bag that they have 2-3 pairs of that is their workhorse on the course. Its one of the common things these guys share.

Look past the guys who carry 20 different molds in their bag like Feldy, hes only doing that so he can talk about each one and rep the products to sell them.. Watch these guys throw in tournaments and they are always grabbing for the same few molds over, and over getting their mind attached to a certain flight that they can replicate.

 

[in4d]

Bottom line,

STOP thinking about which mold should i throw to hit the line.. and start thinking WHICH stage of flight IN this mold will hit that line.. Your going to be thinking about ONE type of flight that only changes slightly based on steages of wear and not having to keep track of so much complex flight of multiple molds and the feel of all those different shapes in your hand, eventually your mind and muscles will know what each mold at every stage of its broken in flight will shape a line like and the feel will be the same in the hand each time, and BOOM your the next McBeth... well maybe not that easy.

Its about being able to REPLICATE something over and over and over consistently.

 

[Streets]

JohnE posted an itb a week or so ago with 7 molds.

I guess no one told him that to throw trilogy you need to bag all 3 companies entire lineups :|

 

[elmexdela]

i carry under 20 discs

 

[Broken Shoulder]

Bottom line,

STOP thinking about which mold should i throw to hit the line.. and start thinking WHICH stage of flight IN this mold will hit that line.. Your going to be thinking about ONE type of flight that only changes slightly based on steages of wear and not having to keep track of so much complex flight of multiple molds and the feel of all those different shapes in your hand, eventually your mind and muscles will know what each mold at every stage of its broken in flight will shape a line like and the feel will be the same in the hand each time, and BOOM your the next McBeth... well maybe not that easy.

Its about being able to REPLICATE something over and over and over consistently.

I'm not really arguing against your logic, but playing Devil's Advocate.
My biggest issue with cycling molds now that I've been back playing again after 13 years off, is that premium plastic doesn't wear in super fast, so if you want to go premium you need to invest a lot of time into those discs, especially on courses that aren't heavily wooded. In my case, I probably average 2 rounds a week in the summer and I don't really play in the winter, and if I do I just throw a few DX discs around. So to season multiple versions of a disc is going to take me a while. These pros are playing every day.
And, the other counter-argument, I suppose, is that while you may be learning fewer molds, you still need to learn/know the same number of discs in either scenario. Most of these pros are limited to the lineup produced by their sponsor, and play a lot, so liking the feel of a certain disc over another similar disc affords them the ability to cycle pretty easily. But, I might like the feel of a Roc and an Alias, and if they're both premium plastic and wear slowly, and I have no contractual restraints to throw one or the other, I can achieve the desired results by having both in the bag and learning their individual characterstics.
Like I said, I'm not arguing your point necessarily. Cycling within molds makes complete sense to me. And maybe that's the difference between a 1010 rating and a 1030 rating... I don't know. But if I'm not throwing every day, either my cycled molds or my individual molds, I'm not going to sniff a 1010 rating regardless, so I'm going to keep throwing my unique discs because I like them and it's more fun for me.

 

[Pwingles]

There is no methodology here guys. There is no secret to building a bag that pro's utilize that non dg gods dont understand.

Some guys are disc whores, some keep it simple. Some switch out molds based on the course, some just bring their bag and make it work.

The difference is theyre better than you at the game in general. Dont need some contrived ratio to tell you that do you?

 

[TalbotTrojan]

I am not sure that we were necessarily looking for the magic ratio. I think it is simply interesting that one can play with varying different philosophies in what they carry in their bag and score just as well or just as poorly depending on your ability.

 

[pecosROB]

Some guys are disc whores, some keep it simple. Some switch out molds based on the course, some just bring their bag and make it work.

Guilty as charged. My name is Rob, and I'm addicted to plastic, even though I can't throw a single one over 400 feet. heh

 

[dx_roc]

read somewhere that Ron Russell only carried three molds and crazy carried three discs back in the day.

 

[Streets]

There is no methodology here guys. There is no secret to building a bag that pro's utilize that non dg gods dont understand.

Some guys are disc whores, some keep it simple. Some switch out molds based on the course, some just bring their bag and make it work.

The difference is theyre better than you at the game in general. Dont need some contrived ratio to tell you that do you?

Truth

 

[in4d]

I'm not really arguing against your logic, but playing Devil's Advocate.
My biggest issue with cycling molds now that I've been back playing again after 13 years off, is that premium plastic doesn't wear in super fast, so if you want to go premium you need to invest a lot of time into those discs, especially on courses that aren't heavily wooded. In my case, I probably average 2 rounds a week in the summer and I don't really play in the winter, and if I do I just throw a few DX discs around. So to season multiple versions of a disc is going to take me a while. These pros are playing every day.
And, the other counter-argument, I suppose, is that while you may be learning fewer molds, you still need to learn/know the same number of discs in either scenario. Most of these pros are limited to the lineup produced by their sponsor, and play a lot, so liking the feel of a certain disc over another similar disc affords them the ability to cycle pretty easily. But, I might like the feel of a Roc and an Alias, and if they're both premium plastic and wear slowly, and I have no contractual restraints to throw one or the other, I can achieve the desired results by having both in the bag and learning their individual characterstics.
Like I said, I'm not arguing your point necessarily. Cycling within molds makes complete sense to me. And maybe that's the difference between a 1010 rating and a 1030 rating... I don't know. But if I'm not throwing every day, either my cycled molds or my individual molds, I'm not going to sniff a 1010 rating regardless, so I'm going to keep throwing my unique discs because I like them and it's more fun for me.

I guess im catering more to the people who play at least 1 or more rounds of disc golf a day and play in tournaments most weekends, looking to better their game and increase consistency.

If you only throw 2 rounds a week for fun, then its going to be hard to even compete in the first place unless you developed a lot of experience, consistency, and muscle memory in your earlier years.. let alone beating in your discs fast enough to think about or plan out cycling.. it wouldnt make sense to the more casual disc golfer.

I know 950ish rated players with random bags of discs who just throw whatever they think will work best for each hole and they do great sometimes, but they never win or gain rating, and then i watch the 1000ish rated players use the same 2 or 3 discs 90% of their round and win consistently. I cant remember seeing a 1000+ rated player who has 10-15 different molds winning around here where i live.

Just something i have noticed past few years.

It obviously has a LOT more than just mold selection as to why they are good, but thats part of it i think.

 

[DikkaD]

It's important to not take something out that is needed.

Always great advice.

 

[Stankyjahnke]

I carry a lot of molds usually don't throw more than 6 in a round

 

[Ted Bratton]

I don't care about the number of discs or molds.

 

[frasnow]

JohnE posted an itb a week or so ago with 7 molds.

I guess no one told him that to throw trilogy you need to bag all 3 companies entire lineups :|

JohnE did admit he had some gaps in his lineup. As for the entire lineup, I haven't seen it in any of the in the bag videos of Trilogy team members. Even Feldberg doesn't carry everything.

 

[Flick Maniac]

Jussi Meresmaa only has 7 molds in his bag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5K8F4YhKk8

I bet that could be squeezed to only 6 by replacing that MD3 with a overstable MD2.