Pros playin Am!?

[Ric Roc]

I will be attending the WI Am Champs this weekend and there are a few registered Pro's (who have cashed, in fact won in masters) playing in the advanced division based on their rating <970. I feel this is unfair because if they place in the top 15% they will be taking spot's for AM Nats (not sure if they can play?) and they are PRO. How do you feel about this rule and also what are some options we have to alter it?

 

[tistoude]

There should be no need to alter the rule. You can play wherever your rating allows and in this case if you are under 970 you can still play am even if you cashed. They will not be qualified for Am Nationals so the next person down the line will get the qualification.

A good example of where this kind of thing happens is I played in a tourney last year that had no advanced field and I am rated over Imtermediate so I had to play open. If I would have cashed I would have declined so that I can play in Am nationals and Am Worlds this year.

An "open" player won BG Ams this year and I have to say none of the players there seemed very upset by it.

 

[Roc1Time]

This^

 

[slowRoll]

An "open" player won BG Ams this year and I have to say none of the players there seemed very upset by it.

Yes, I've already lost to an Open player that has accepted cash this year. I'm not the least bit upset about him bagging and taking the basket from me by 8 strokes... Not the least. :thmbdown:

The reality is, we don't whine about it because nobody cares. It just makes us look bad and we need to get better. They don't play in Open at bigger events because they will get their tail kicked, we just need to start kicking their tail a little in AM1 and maybe then they will stop dropping down to cherry pick prizes away from us true ams.

 

[smyith]

some areas have different rating levels for their divisions. some places someone might be able to cash consistently in PRO divisions with their ratings being in the mid 900s. while in another location they would be middle pack ADV players. heck there some areas where ive seen the average rating for an ADV player is near 900.
so yes it is fair, that why we have ratings.

 

[waynewf]

Sounds like some sand-bagger D-B's trying to make themselves feel better at the expense of others....very wisconsin-esque...

 

[roadtripstuff]

Sounds like some sand-bagger D-B's trying to make themselves feel better at the expense of others....very wisconsin-esque...

Haha that should be their moto....


If I can't have/do it, no one can. Spread the hate.

 

[DavidSauls]

A 940-rated Am plays Open in one C-Tier event, lucks up and wins $20 last cash, and he should never play Am the rest of his life?

The distinction between Pro & Am is quite fuzzy. Most of our Pros aren't professionals; they don't make a living, or even earn more than their entry fees. Our Ams are hardly amateurs, winning stacks of plastic and other merchandise.

The reason for the under-970 rule, for those with shorter memories, is that at one time accepting cash doomed you to the Pro ranks for life (unless you petitioned the PDGA). Players would rise to the point where they could test the pro waters. Some would plateau in the mid-900s and find themselves in limbo; they could pay high fees, play Open and almost never cash....or they could quit playing tournaments. It was called "Move up---move up---move out."

So some players never left the Am ranks, for fear of getting trapped in the Pro divisions.

One effect of the current rule is that better Ams can step out of the Advanced division to try Open. When they choose to, they make room for those who stay back in Advanced, and add to the pool of Open players (and to the Open purse). A pretty good deal, all around.

 

[rusch_bag]

What is up with all of the hate on Wisconsin lately? People bag all over the country. Wisconsin doesn't even have the big of a bagger problem, it is more the exact opposite. It seems like everyone moves up when they are 950 which is dumb, but I did it anyway.

 

[rusch_bag]

I looked at the registration list and there are only like 6 or 7 people above 960 and most of the ones that have taken cash already are not even from wisconsin. For being an amateur only A tier, I am surprised there aren't some super baggers there. Quit whining and get better.

 

[jmhoekst]

I played in Int at a tourney when my rating was 934. Perfectly legal. I won by 9 strokes and withstood death stares all day, but who cares.

Don't hate the player who follows the rules. Hate the rule. Would you propose the PDGA makes fifteen divisions??????

 

[rusch_bag]

I'm more upset about the guy rated 77X playing advanced. That should not be allowed.

 

[smyith]

What is up with all of the hate on Wisconsin lately? People bag all over the country. Wisconsin doesn't even have the big of a bagger problem, it is more the exact opposite. It seems like everyone moves up when they are 950 which is dumb, but I did it anyway.

W.I.S.C.O.s are fun to hate on. ive done it my whole life but im a FIB so its understandable.
And i will attest to Wisconsin (as well as N ILL) not having a bagger problem outside of some ADV players that are ready to move up to PRO.

 

[tistoude]

I would much rather have a 960 rated guy playing down than a 980 guy who refuses to move up.

 

[notBOB]

i posted a thread about 'progression over several years' this week, and within it i stated how the pdga ratings system is seriously flawed for this reason exactly. they may be pro but theyre the weakest ones on the course in more ways than one. complete pussies. i would never dream of dropping down from advanced even though my rating 'allows' me to. f*ck that and f*ck those people who wont move up even though theyre dominating. i know at least 10 of these people here in oklahoma, they know who they are. why would you not try to better yourself? to me that degrades the sport and unmotivates people to play tournys, talk about a reason to 'hate disc golf' like the other thread states..

rise above it.

 

[notBOB]

W.I.S.C.O.s are fun to hate on. ive done it my whole life but im a FIB so its understandable.
And i will attest to Wisconsin (as well as N ILL) not having a bagger problem outside of some ADV players that are ready to move up to PRO.

yea, right?! friggin fwb's dont know a damn thing!

...props on the hawks girl. Down with the canucks!!!

 

[GunnerUnitas]

As an athlete I have always wanted to compete against the best, and play my skill level. I find too many golfers are like star war geeks when it comes to ratings, the point is a player knows a player. Play to your skill level I tell people.

My view other then the touring pros, local open players for the most part( there are exceptions) are like me playing in open gyms in basketball all over the city. I was all-city player, but the skill level is always gonna limited when your playing players of all levels, no matter if they were all-state, rule of 10,000, or just a talented street ball player who never did anything.

 

[DavidSauls]

Perhaps the problem is all these supposed "amateurs" who have been playing for personal gain instead of love of the game. If anyone's ever taken anything of value, greater than their entry fee, let's strip them of their amateur status!

 

[garublador]

Perhaps the problem is all these supposed "amateurs" who have been playing for personal gain instead of love of the game. If anyone's ever taken anything of value, greater than their entry fee, let's strip them of their amateur status!

Yeah, "amateurs" in disc golf are just ratings protected pros. They're still playing for money, they just don't have to play with people who are, on average, better than them unless they're in advanced. Granted, I'm not really sure what the point of advanced is, but worrying about that hasn't been high on my list of priorities lately.

It seems to work in that it generates money for tournaments without having to depend on sponsors, so there doesn't seem to be a really good reason to "fix" it.

 

[smyith]

Perhaps the problem is all these supposed "amateurs" who have been playing for personal gain instead of love of the game. If anyone's ever taken anything of value, greater than their entry fee, let's strip them of their amateur status!

LOL!

im just happy that this is one of the few sports were AMs actually get something besides a trophy or pat on the back.

if its a sanctioned event then whatever the rules are they are. for those of you who havent been around all that long. the PDGA has been trying to address this "problem" for many years. personally i think the current system and divisions are the best theyve ever done. compared to the way it was organized only a few years ago its a vast improvement.
basically you have to look at it like this. no matter how you change the rules, some people are going to be happy and others arent. the best thing you can do is try to make it as fair as possible for everyone. and honestly the way it is set-up now is fair to everyone. in my personal opinion you arent a 'true' pro until you've reached a 1000 rating. those in the 970-999 range are pro's but not at the top level yet.
just try to remember one thing always when playing or competing; DISC GOLF IS FUN TO PLAY so quite your complaining go out and have fun playing this wonderful game.