Question about over stable driver spot.

[domromer]

For years I never bothered with an over stable driver until just a few months ago. Mostly I use it when I need a really hard hyzer. Most of the courses up here are pretty deep in the woods so wind isn't a real big issue. I've had a firebird in that spot but just can't seem to get any decent distance out of it. I've probably maxed out at 300ft. Where as my max D is about 375. So I'm wondering should I try a lower weight firebird like maybe a 165 or am I better off discing down to something like a 165 whippet? What do you guys think?

 

[Aaron_D]

If you are missing 75' on the firebird drives that would seem like a red flag to me. Even if you release it hard and flat you are only getting the fb out to 300'? What disc are you hitting 375 with on what line? A whippet is much shorter for me than a firebird...like WAY shorter. The whippet just falls out of the sky.

 

[keltik1]

well aaron i have the same issue as dom.....i can hit 300 easily with a teebird on a golf type line but it's all i can do to get a firechicken to break 250.....a predator on the other hand is right even with a teebird.....maybe i have a form issue too.....but then again the FB is rated as a shorter driver than a TB on joe's flight chart.....can you and dan get together and create a mutant arm strength serum?

and dom.....try a predator.....it'll reach

 

[JR]

well aaron i have the same issue as dom.....i can hit 300 easily with a teebird on a golf type line but it's all i can do to get a firechicken to break 250.....a predator on the other hand is right even with a teebird.....maybe i have a form issue too.....but then again the FB is rated as a shorter driver than a TB on joe's flight chart.....can you and dan get together and create a mutant arm strength serum?

and dom.....try a predator.....it'll reach

Man I gotta try Oktoberfest sometime for the serum. Have you seen the glass sizes there?

 

[BarrabusTheDiscGolfGnome]

K, so here's what I think is happening. I have the same problem as dom and keltik. Firebirds are overstable like a muther, and without crazy snap or crazy torque they are never going to flatten and glide the way other molds will. Torquing a disc over robs distance and can screw up your form, so attempting to manipulate flight with torque = stupid plan. This leaves us to consider snap...my form isn't clean at all. On a good day (with the gods smiling on me) I can break 320 with a gazelle or teebird, most days it's 280-300 if I am lucky. with this level of power I cannot honestly expect to be able to accelerate a speed nine driver (especially not one with so much HSS!) to its intended cruising velocity, ergo I will not see the distance the disc is capable of as I lack the proper technique and power. Dom and Keltik throw farther than I do but I would venture a guess that insufficient snap is still the culprit.

Solutions, Preds are good! Banshee is my weapon of choice for wind warfare though! Give one a shot and see if it works better for you. It isn't distance challenged like the whippet but it is not quite as long as the firechickens either.

 

[garublador1]

If I want any sort of respectable distance out of my very overstable driver (a Spirit), I need to put a lot of anhyzer on it and enought height so it has room to flex out. The point really isn't to get maximum distance, the point is you can throw as hard as you want on a hyzer and it won't flatten out. It's great for getting over and around things and for shorter drives into headwinds. For me at least, a 250' shot into a 15mph headwind is way easier when I throw a spike hyzer with a Spirit than trying to play the wind with a mid.

 

[cmlasley]

I can throw Teebirds 330-360, and I have real trouble breaking 330 with a max wt. Firebirds.

There are several good options: 1) DX Firebird; 2) Banshee; 3) Pred.

I use the Pred in Z and ESP. I can throw it so that it goes straight then hyzers or I can throw big low hyzers with big skips or big high hyzers that mostly stay put. I've never had luck getting any straight flight out of a Firebird unless it was mega-beat or in DX.

 

[RS39]

Another reason to try the Pred in 165-170 is that both ESP and Z fly pretty similar, so when hi-alt winter comes you can get decent grip on the ESP without learning a new disc.

 

[VictorB]

Having thrown all 3 discs at different points in my disc golf career, I'd recommend something like a 170ish Champ Banshee, for these reasons:

1. The weight of a champ firebird won't affect its stability as much as you'd probably like, so it would still most likely be a meathook.

2. The predator has a flight of a banshee (very straight in the HSS portion of flight and very hard fade at the LSS portion of flight), but is as fast if not a bit faster than a firebird.

3. The champ banshee was what I threw for the longest time, until I reached the 400' plateau with my max d drivers, where it didn't have the LSS I wanted early enough in it's flight.

edit: It may also have something to do with your altitude in Flagstaff, so it would probably benefit you to try something like a Banshee first to see if you get the desired flight on the courses you play the most.

 

[Kenja]

300 sounds about right for a newish FB. It will get a little longer as it beats in, but Firebirds don't have much glide once they start to fade. You really need +++armspeed to crack 400 with a firebird.

Discmania PD would fit nicely into the long overstable slot, or a Pred. Personally I prefer the PD because its the same rim and wing as the FB.

 

[Jesse B 707]

get a DX FB for when you need more d but still want beef, they are awesome

 

[Dump Truck]

Fbirds are going to be shorter. Face it... if you want something overstable that fades quicker... that = shorter. You have a beat in disc or different mold that flies straighter longer; it's not overstable anymore. Xcal is pretty much a faster longer fbird. People will argue as to what kind of d you should have before throwing an xcal but if you want a longer fbird that's it.

 

[domromer]

the firebird in question is DX.

The funny thing is a few days ago I Was messing around throwing side arm. I got the firebird out to 350! Which is by far the furthest I've ever thrown it. Too bad I have no aim or cocsitency with sidearm.

 

[domromer]

If you are missing 75' on the firebird drives that would seem like a red flag to me. Even if you release it hard and flat you are only getting the fb out to 300'? What disc are you hitting 375 with on what line? A whippet is much shorter for me than a firebird...like WAY shorter. The whippet just falls out of the sky.

I can get the JLS to 375 on a very high S or the teebird 15ft off the ground dead straight.

 

[banzai7]

DX firebirds bomb forehand. As they beat in they get longer and longer. Lighter weights will go longer too (but not really any less stable). I had a 166g DX FB that was my money disc for a while.

 

[JR]

K, so here's what I think is happening. I have the same problem as dom and keltik. Firebirds are overstable like a muther, and without crazy snap or crazy torque they are never going to flatten and glide the way other molds will. Torquing a disc over robs distance and can screw up your form, so attempting to manipulate flight with torque = stupid plan. This leaves us to consider snap...my form isn't clean at all. On a good day (with the gods smiling on me) I can break 320 with a gazelle or teebird, most days it's 280-300 if I am lucky. with this level of power I cannot honestly expect to be able to accelerate a speed nine driver (especially not one with so much HSS!) to its intended cruising velocity, ergo I will not see the distance the disc is capable of as I lack the proper technique and power. Dom and Keltik throw farther than I do but I would venture a guess that insufficient snap is still the culprit.

Solutions, Preds are good! Banshee is my weapon of choice for wind warfare though! Give one a shot and see if it works better for you. It isn't distance challenged like the whippet but it is not quite as long as the firechickens either.

Normally super speedy discs are hard fading but for those lacking big snap (raising hand) high speed, high glide and minimal fade (Leopard etc.) give more D. The thing is many of the discs meeting even two of these goals aren't super long at least without a bug arm or a run up of light speed. Without super power and big snap say good bye to a fire chicken as it is way shorter than a Pred which ain't super long either. If I want headwind max D it's Star 168 Boss for me or less murderous power requirement ESP Flash and they both are power hungry hogs. Something less fading and less power hungry may still work for getting out farther with an overstable flight path. Especially your stature considered your Gazelle and Teebird D ain't bad at all so you don't have newb form. It ain't nothing to scoff at for an average sized guy too. Something I fall short of. And barely outdistance you.

I'm not sure how far you wanna throw with an overstable disc. They are always gonna be shorter than low fade line drives with slow fairway drivers. Banshee champ 175 used ain't longer for me than a new Champ 175 Firebird despite the speed difference. Actually both hit ground too early for D so the speed dictates D for me with those and I get few extra feet with a Firebird. YMMV.

 

[domromer]

While I understand an overstable disc isn't supposed to be for max D. The distance I can throw it now makes it about as useful as tits on a bull. I can throw an over stable mid and get pretty much the same D. I'll try two things. I'll see if I can find a Banshee or predator. Also my Z Flash is pretty overstable for my weak girl arm so that might be a pretty good over stable disc for me. Lord knows i can't hardly get the damn thing to fly straight!

Thanks for the input as usual guys.

 

[Jesse B 707]

beat it a bit more, if its DX it shouldnt stay really overstable for long, ive had my DX for like 2 months and it flips up to flat from a little hyzer and cruises out to around 340/350 (i throw my Orcs or roadrunners out to 380-400)

 

[dvlcek]

I'll be different and suggest an older disc - DX Viper. I could always get more D with a Viper than a FB (DX for both) and still be overstable.

But I also like the Banshee/Pred (Tsunami as well) suggestions. I just find those to be a little too straight in the high speed portion of the flight to really be a meathook out of my hand. There's also 150 class Flicks I heard great things about a few years ago. Never tried one myself, just heavier Z Flicks and those seemed closer to FBs (as no distance but sure would hook). Maybe a Max or Monster would give more distance than the FB and still be overstable out of the hand. Never really tried those out myself. Spirit seemed really close to the FB too for me but maybe a Blaze would be a good one to go here.

 

[keltik1]

While I understand an overstable disc isn't supposed to be for max D. The distance I can throw it now makes it about as useful as tits on a bull. I can throw an over stable mid and get pretty much the same D. I'll try two things. I'll see if I can find a Banshee or predator. Also my Z Flash is pretty overstable for my weak girl arm so that might be a pretty good over stable disc for me. Lord knows i can't hardly get the damn thing to fly straight!

Thanks for the input as usual guys.

i raised this issue before dom....so you're not alone.....and it's one of the only downsides of the DGR kool-aid....you get a good idea about what discs to throw regardless of your own personal skill level (i don't throw that far).....i've noticed that a lot of pros throw these meat hooks with great frequency.....but they are on a completely different level than the rest of us.....so it makes me think that unless i'm throwing into gale force winds it's gonna stay in the bag or even the trunk of the car......i think us weekend warrior mortals are best to leave these discs well alone......for a while anyway