Question on pull

[Technohic]

So, I was out at the net again and generally, when I pull the disc through, it starts close to my body and comes around both pecs but then I tried something. I reached back and had my back almost completely toward the net and my arm straight infront of me and pulled toward my right pec (RHBH btw) to where my rotation basically just barely moved out of the way to where if I didnt time it right, I would peg the disc onto my right pec.

Hitting my pec was easily corrected but I noticed that while throwing into the net before, the net would cath the disc and the disc would just fall to the ground but doing this new pull, the net was stretching and flipping the disc back at me to where I would catch it.

Am I on to something or am I just doing things entirely wrong here?

 

[sidewinding]

Am I on something?

Probably.

 

[Technohic]

Probably.

Im not going to lie. I have done crack before.

 

[toothyfish]

It sounds as if you increased the release velocity. How far away is the net from where you throw? Are you able to get any kind of look at the flight of the disc (angle, wobble, nose up/down)?

 

[Technohic]

I stand about 5' away as I dont want a wild disc getting past the net but dont want any chance of me leaning forward and snagging my fingers on it making me timid of follow through either.

It goes fast to where I cant see much and it doesnt help that the disc is flying back at me as that makes me have to be a little more alert and not so focused on what the disc is doing but where its going. I will likely have to hit a field to get a good visual on it.

 

[tmahan]

It sounds like you're saying you only rotated your upper body closer to 45 degrees instead of the full 90 degrees, is that correct? Maybe that's resulting in a straighter pull for your arm through to the release point.

It may not be right but it sure is interesting. I've been struggling with that full 90 degree turn and pulling accross both pecs myself.

I'm convince my major problem is with the snap. I've seen the Beato and the rambling guy's video and still feel like I'm just letting go of the disc instead of letting it get ripped from my grip. I do get that rip on rare occasion, maybe minimizing the amount of other motion will help.

 

[sbinwien]

I cannot tell you what it is, but I did something similar a few months back and was not able to repeat it.

I pulled the disc in and launched it just before looking at the target and it flew a least 30% farther than my normal throw. It just seemed to glide forever. I have not repeated it since...

My guess is I was throwing with more hips to throw...

 

[Technohic]

What I am saying is, before; the back of my right shoulder would face the direction I want to go, but the rest of my back was kind of at an angle from there with the disc at the furthest point back in the pull within inches of my gut and left pec. Then when pulling through it stayed close and just came around my body.

New method, my whole back is just about facing where I want to go with my arm extened in the opposite direction away from my body then when I pull, its coming toward my right pec which gets out of the way by the rest of the body rotating so, I guess it is comming in a straighter line.

Arm motion from | to |:|

:| = body and the line = the motion

 

[NateDiscFlip]

Good Progress

I like the adjustment you are making....just be aware of making a good transition(as in let your foot stop, hips rotate, shoulder and elbow follow, and most importantly....create most speed in the final wrist snap of your throw). In many cases, I see that walking through a shot faster, is not as important as creating a good crisp transition speed.

The advice is where I would say to treat directly in front of you as 12 o'clock. Therefore, if you are reaching back and pulling through....try to stay as str8 as you can as in where you extend or reach to where you release is a str8 line....the second part is....and this is common....try not to go from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock on the reach and release.....instead, go from 7 o'clock to 11 o'clock....

This will keep the disc close to you, but will creat an amount of seperation you will see as comfortable, and will allow for you to pull off more dynamic shots....where as going south to north...or 6 to 12 is making you pull your discs over....or your not hitting the line like you want.

Lately, I have not been so concerned about getting a full extension, but trying to tighten up the distance of my extension and release, as this technique(stated above) is more suitable for natural anyhyzer release players....where I am a hyzer player, who is able to manipulate the huge anyhyzer releases....I am assuming you throw from the way you described it.

Also, try to extend and release your disc chest to shoulder high...as I, being a hyzer thrower extend and release shots below my chest...and focus on your transition....it makes all the difference once you get the other fundamentals down. Not to mention, with more power...as I am expecting you are experiencing....be very aware of your grip...and where your thumbnail is upon your release....gl:hfive:

 

[Frank Delicious]

If you can generate more arm speed from the extra rotation than you will be throwing farther. The trick with rotation and all that is to make sure it is all coordinated to maximize your power. It sounds like before you weren't rotating enough and now that you are rotating more it has helped you get your upper body and lower body coordinated better.

 

[Frank Delicious]

Oh, also you are still creating a small arc when you pull through, it is just not as noticeable.

 

[Technohic]

Yeah, the more I think about it, it sounds more like bent elbow vs straigh arm. Before; I had a bent elbow all the way through the reach back, never straightening it. Now, I straighten it at full reach back and it bends as it approaches my chest then wips past straightening when the disc is comming past my right pec.

I think it is getting more body involved as I am not putting any more effort in my arm but man; does it take some energy out of me when I do it a few times in a row.

 

[Lithicon]

First off since you turned your back toward the target, you got your elbow back farther; that in it's self will create more distance. But, as Frank said it sounds like you are generating more spin due to reaching back farther, getting your elbow back farther. But, also like Frank said it sounds like you're still arcing away from your body in more of a bent elbow technique.

 

[Lithicon]

Basically when you go into your X step, you reach back. This puts your shoulders facing roughly 180* from the target. It all starts coming out of the X step; the final step starts your rotation out; (Plant foot). As you start to rotate, through body positions, as you're not actually moving your arm yet, the disc is somewhere around your left shoulder. Now, once everything rotates around and your chest is roughly 90* from the target you have a slight pause in your chest, and at this point you "close" your wrist pulling the disc toward your forearm. This puts the disc directly at the center of your chest, (DON'T PULL YET!)
Now during this pause after you close your wrist, you finish rotating your right shoulder. IF you closed your wrist, the disc has no choice but to be "tucked" into the right pec; your right elbow should be pointing at the target. Achieved my rotating your shoulders to line up with your chest. ALL this was achieved by nothing but body positioning, and you should have exerted no force with your arm at all.

Since all this is happening in a split second, it's easy to take body positioning out of the equation and just pull it through with your arm, as that's what feels natural, but that's why you lose power.

This is where the "right pec drill" comes in, as everything from this point after doing the drill should feel 100% natural if you've done the drill long enough. As this tucked feel; with ALL the acceleration from your forearm comes AT THIS POINT OUT. As if you're doing the right pec drill, so that the forearm slings out. The wrist opens to neutral; (Straight with your forearm) due to inertia, then you should physically assist the wrist opening to the "full open" position; (past straight with your forearm) and the disc will then be ejected due to the incredible force you just generated. There is more as to how and why the disc actually leaves your hand, but I won't discuss that right now. But, the split second the disc leaves your hand, you go into the follow through; the arm goes right, and the chest is then pulled to face the target.

So, to recap, everything leading up to getting the disc tucked into your right pec is ALL body positioning and you don't really use any muscles from your arm to "pull" the disc into the pec. THEN, the acceleration gained by your forearm, coupled with the inertia of your body rotating, generates a "whip" like effect, and propels the disc forward.

This is a post I made recently on DGR for someone. It goes over all the steps in your body positioning how you "end up" with the disc tucked into your pec, which is where the right pec drill Starts. The first part is where you might have been off some, everyone varies on how far they turn their body from the target. You want your shoulders roughly 180* from the target. This is generally for more distance.

 

[Technohic]

From the pec out, its about the same; the only difference I am doing is where my reach back is and, as talked about above; the body position.

Im probably just re-enforcing what you wrote above but slowing it down last night, its like I get more power from my body turned back a bit further and; starting my pull from being straigh out in front of me I seem to have more power coming into the pec position as opposed to pulling from my left side across my body. (Probably cause my beer belly is in the way)

It also seems to be closing my wrist more and tucking the disc in actually closer to my right pec. Then when it hits what is done on the pec drill; this seems to force more pop of the wrist opening. I used to, in fact; be able to do a full speed throwing motion with disc in hand yet keep ahold of the disc and I still can somewhat, but its not very smart as the disc really wants to fly out and I have a hard time keeping my fingers tight as it seems not only is the disc pulling really hard, but its like my fingers are getting whiplashed open.

 

[Technohic]

Been working on this more at night with the net and trying to pick a spot on the net to hit because I think this has really shown me a lot more issues in my drive than originally thought. I need to have one of my buddies or something film me with my Blackberry so I can really see what is happening but; along with the earlier mentioned things the new way is getting me to do, I dont think on my old way I was reaching back at all. Basically, all the pec drills with Beato and then adding in my steps I was still finishing with only throwing from my pec with literrally almost no reach back. I tried incorporating that before but when I dont think about it, it just doesnt happen.

Think I am going to do just a single step with reach back for a while before bringing the X step back into it after doing it for a while and getting my muscle memory for it with less to think about.

Cant wait to try this on a field or at least a course which I hope to this weekend.

 

[Lithicon]

Yeah, it's like Frank mentioned. When you face your shoulders 180* from the target, like I said it gets your elbow back farther. But, like Frank said it allows you more power generated from rotation, this is why getting the elbow back farther allows for more distance. Because you have to pull all that back around. You said it feels like you're coming into your pec with more power, because you are, due to the inertia of more rotation in your upper body at this point. Due to reaching back farther. There more centrifugal force being applied, just like a 360* run up throw. Now this is assuming that everything else is in place, as I'm sure you're fully aware by now. The timing is a bit different, which is what it sounds like you were having slight problems with. When you change your pull back, you really have to focus on body positioning to make sure everything flows in the correct way.

Now, the centrifugal forces are what make this work. and I don't really suggest this, as it takes more timing variables, and such, just like working on a 360* run up, but just think about it.
But, talking with Blake he told me that even if you don't "REACH" back, and you have the disc tucked into the pec and you go into a run up, but you rotate so that you right elbow go back to 180* from the target; while keeping the disc tucked into the pec. You'll actually throw just as far as if you "reached back" with the disc. This all comes from the centrifugal forces being generated. Again, assuming all your timing and stuff is in order after you start back around and all that.

 

[Technohic]

I have noticed the timing. Thats why I was trying to pick a spot on the net to try to improve it a bit before having to chase a disc down somewhere. Also working on making it smooth and maintaining control.

Tucking it in and doing that rotation would be hard right now as my arm reaching back like that is my only reference for where the timing is at the moment to start the rythm. Once I feel it more than think it, I might give it a shot.

Thanks!

 

[Lithicon]

It was more of just an example, but you could still try it. If you ever decide to do it; just try it slowly going through the body positioning. It's hard simply because you have to rotate farther, and takes a little while to get use to it into the X step, and timing all together.

 

[NateDiscFlip]

Sgt. Peck

Give me 30 peck drills now private!

Can you send me the link on the peck drill so I can catch up with your abilities oh mighty Lith?