Rebounding on Reach Back

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

My buddy and I both use a standing drive with no run up or x-step. He has been getting 10 to 20' more distance than me on most drives for some time, so I started watching him to see if I could tell what the difference was. What I noticed was that, while we were both extending our arms towards our line a couple times before reaching back one last time and letting fly, while I reach back and hold for a second, he was extending the disc back and then going immediately into his throw. At first glance I thought maybe what he was doing was a mistake, that going immediately from extending back to throwing forward he was having to counter the backward momentum in order to throw forward. But, the more I thought about it the more what he was doing made sense - he was pushing his weight, of his body, arm and disc back, yes, but then it 'rebounded', making for a quicker start on the forward throw movements than I got from just standing still and shifting forward from a dead stop to start my throw. In nature, a kangaroo's hop is a good analogy because it is well known to be the most efficient mode of rapid travel because most of the energy of each landing gets converted into upward and forward momentum for the next bounce.

Has anyone put this rebound into their routine? Any advice on how I can make it work for me?

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

Okay, SW, I have to admit that's pretty darn appropriate. If you're starting to understand me, and I'm starting to agree with you...I'm a scared. Heh.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[Krinkncrank]

Plyometric effect

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plyometrics

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

Scratch scared - I'm TERRIFIED now.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Loaded energy is free. And nothing beats free.

 

[ohtobediscing]

I certainly don't waste the time and effort of "pointing" the disc at the target and then reaching it back several times. It ingrains bad form, and the few I've seen do it do not drive consistently well.
You don't have to try to "rebound", its a kinesthetic property of reversed motion.

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

I certainly don't waste the time and effort of "pointing" the disc at the target and then reaching it back several times. It ingrains bad form, and the few I've seen do it do not drive consistently well.
You don't have to try to "rebound", its a kinesthetic property of reversed motion.

Extending toward the target helps me visualize my line. As for not needing to try, as I said, I had been reaching back and pausing before. So, to change, I had to 'try' to not do that. Everything we do consciously to change technique requires trying something new.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Keep in mind that the extension of the arm doesn't extend towards the target while the disc is in your hand. This picture shows the shoulder alignment with the forearm extension along with the line he's actually throwing on.

This is to say that when I see players lining up the disc out front of themselves, I understand that they're working out the where the disc line is headed and the trajectory - but that's different than lining up the body to avoid over-opening the shoulders.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

This is to say that when I see players lining up the disc out front of themselves, I understand that they're working out the where the disc line is headed and the trajectory - but that's different than lining up the body to avoid over-opening the shoulders.

When I see this it always makes me think of a little kid, like Tee Ball age, aiming the baseball like its he's throwing darts then goes through a giant wind up and hucks the ball way high and right.

 

[timothy42b]

.

This is to say that when I see players lining up the disc out front of themselves, I understand that they're working out the where the disc line is headed and the trajectory - but that's different than lining up the body to avoid over-opening the shoulders.

So they're looking at an imagined release point that is a couple feet past their actual release point?

 

[timothy42b]

I certainly don't waste the time and effort of "pointing" the disc at the target and then reaching it back several times. .

I see a LOT of people do this putting - sometimes 20 times. Or until they're slowing down play.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

So they're looking at an imagined release point that is a couple feet past their actual release point?

Further out. I can only speak for myself, but if I will sometimes try to work out my trajectory and disc angles for the apex of the flight.

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

Keep in mind that the extension of the arm doesn't extend towards the target while the disc is in your hand. This picture shows the shoulder alignment with the forearm extension along with the line he's actually throwing on.

This is to say that when I see players lining up the disc out front of themselves, I understand that they're working out the where the disc line is headed and the trajectory - but that's different than lining up the body to avoid over-opening the shoulders.

Remember, I did say I do a standing throw, so my body is turned 90 degrees, with my throwing shoulder towards the target, so extending my arm towards the target does simulate the release point give or take a few degrees. I've seen the footage of the pros, and I know their release point is much sooner than you expect it to be (which seems odd when you watch it because it seems to go against logic), but you can't argue with results. And that's really my point - I don't extend my arm towards my line arbitrarily. I know pretty much how the disc is going to go from experience. What would be the point in extending my arm on one line, and have the disc go out on a completely different one? Why would anyone do that over and over and continue to think it will work 'this' time? I mean, come on.

 

[rhatton1]

Remember, I did say I do a standing throw, so my body is turned 90 degrees, with my throwing shoulder towards the target, so extending my arm towards the target does simulate the release point give or take a few degrees. I've seen the footage of the pros, and I know their release point is much sooner than you expect it to be (which seems odd when you watch it because it seems to go against logic), but you can't argue with results. And that's really my point - I don't extend my arm towards my line arbitrarily. I know pretty much how the disc is going to go from experience. What would be the point in extending my arm on one line, and have the disc go out on a completely different one? Why would anyone do that over and over and continue to think it will work 'this' time? I mean, come on.

Should make no difference, X step is just adding momentum and making the standstill throw more dynamic - it shouldn't change the angles you are trying to achieve.

If your release/contact point is out in front of your body on a line to the target, you are rounding and slipping and every now and again probably "hitting" it and griplocking big out to the right. If you've practiced this motion enough you might not even get the griplocks.

Their (pros/big drivers) release point is not "sooner" their body angles mean they are extending the contact point as far forward and late as possible.

Why would anyone do that over and over and continue to think it will work 'this' time? I mean, come on.

Because the disc slips out early, they don't get a full "hit", the disc goes in the right direction, their internet distance estimate tells them it was a massive throw and a negative feedback loop is created making them do the same thing over and over without realising their is a better and more efficient way to throw more repeatably accurately and far.

 

[rhatton1]

Love this image.

Disc will be released halfway between disc one and disc two in the picture so at release the arms still got about 45 degrees to move before hitting the target line.

If you're lining up the disc straight ahead you're doing yourself a disservice, a this in no way replicates a good body position.

(seeing this is a pet peeve)

 

[timothy42b]

Further out. I can only speak for myself, but if I will sometimes try to work out my trajectory and disc angles for the apex of the flight.

I see I didn't explain well.

If I point my arm toward the target before throwing, and think that is going to be the release point (remember from the hit backwards) then I'm dead wrong.

The real release point should be long before the arm gets pointing at the target? I think I've misunderstood this all along.

 

[timothy42b]

If your release/contact point is out in front of your body on a line to the target, you are rounding and slipping and every now and again probably "hitting" it and griplocking big out to the right.

Light bulb! That makes sense to me. My longest throws have been those that go right, now I maybe see why.

Trying to pull close to my chest is the confusing part of this.

 

[rhatton1]

Trying to pull close to my chest is the confusing part of this.

This isn't perfect but might help you visualise it. Stand up as though you're going to drive.

Make a right angle between your upper arm and your chest.

Keep this angle stationary throughout, don't extend or collapse the upper arm/chest angle at any point.

Now attempt to reach back and slowly pull through and extend the lower arm into the hit whilst keeping that upper arm angle the whole way (back,forwards and only releasing in the follow through)

To do this you have to use your hips, as you settle your weight and the hips come forward the disc will move into the chest, as the hips brace and you begin to open up forward the lower arm will start swinging outwards, it will feel like the disc is going on an out/in/out arc but in fact it will be moving nearly straight.

Don't try to throw like this just do it to get the concept. A lot of rounding comes from collapsing that upper arm angle and then the shoulders then get in front of the throw.