"Secret Technique" statement, just curious

[RowingBoats]

I find this quote by Blake interesting:

-most body motions are over-rated. i've found a 20 degree body rotation with no reach back can still yield a 275'+ throw with a small arm twitch and using no leg power. increasing the body rotation on reach back to 90 degrees seems to add about 40' (~15%). adding 18"+ of reach back seems to add about 25' (~9%). adding a full run up adds about 40' (~15%). those three things together are noticeable but if you work from a 275' baseline with a midrange disc, a full body rotation, full reach back, and utilizing the legs are responsible for roughly 27.6% of the throw. read as: about 10" of motion mainly focusing on the wrist, hand, and fingers is roughly 72.4% of the throw.

Have we overlooked the importance of the "wrist, hand, and fingers" in the throw?

This popped up again on the main page, and I remember reading it and feeling like I didn't really agree before.

How do you all feel about this quote? True? Nah? I DO believe people overestimate the importance and actual distance gains that an x-step adds, but that isn't entirely the point he was making.

Quick edit: I am not at all saying an x-step is not going to add distance. Clearly it is the vastly preferred way to throw far and Im sure it does help, when done right. Personally I just like being able to not give a s*** about 99% of lies I have to work with.

 

[RowingBoats]

To me the whole concept of 'no leg power' doesn't make sense. Even doing the 20 degree turn doesn't decouple your legs from the ground lol.

Maybe this is just a dumb thing to even talk about.

 

[Sewer bill]

I standstill like 350. With a run up I can get in the 500s. Some people have more to gain in different places.

 

[RowingBoats]

I standstill like 350. With a run up I can get in the 500s. Some people have more to gain in different places.

I assume you don't think Blake's post has much truth to it then eh?

 

[Countchunkula]

I assume you don't think Blake's post has much truth to it then eh?

Blake (and the DGR forums) was pretty much the pinnacle of disc golf form thought circa 2008 or so afaik. More people have gotten involved since then and better/more video allows you to see things you couldn't easily see before.

When dg form science gets to the point where it's basically mature*, I'm sure not all of Blake's ideas will hold water. Hard to argue that he isn't part of the foundation though.

I think the quoted comments were about a hypothetical individual using Blake's idealized form and ignored varieties in lever lengths and athletic abilities. I'm pretty sure a lot of his baseline distances were assuming people were throwing teebirds too. Take it for what it is.

*Maybe we're there already, but I'll defer to the experts.

 

[RowingBoats]

Blake (and the DGR forums) was pretty much the pinnacle of disc golf form thought circa 2008 or so afaik. More people have gotten involved since then and better/more video allows you to see things you couldn't easily see before.

When dg form science gets to the point where it's basically mature*, I'm sure not all of Blake's ideas will hold water. Hard to argue that he isn't part of the foundation though.

I think the quoted comments were about a hypothetical individual using Blake's idealized form and ignored varieties in lever lengths and athletic abilities. I'm pretty sure a lot of his baseline distances were assuming people were throwing teebirds too. Take it for what it is.

*Maybe we're there already, but I'll defer to the experts.

Ya, agreed...I just think this particular statement is SO against the modern grain that it seemed interesting to me. Blake obviously could throw and contributed a lot of good info, so I also thought it would be weird if there was nothing to this.

I haven't gone back and tried to play with arm actions isolated from larger movements for a long while.

 

[Sewer bill]

I assume you don't think Blake's post has much truth to it then eh?

I really don't know I have a different outlook on form. Most coaches and form people disagree with me on technique. At the end of the day it really comes down to results. I know how much I can add with a run up, and I have played with many people just like me.

I think because a disc is a fixed diameter when you introduce different human geometry into the throw there's weird things that can happen. There's definitely an anatomically optimal length of forearm to upper arm to shoulder width, and hip mobility, expressed as some kind of ratio, what that is I don't know, but that's the secret sauce, optimizing your own lever lengths to create the most mechanical advantage and that means there's not one optimal swing shape or run up speed. It's murky and becoming more transparent as things like motion capture and high speed footage and autism come in to the analysis.

It's like drag racing, simple things get really damn complicated almost instantly when you go deeper than measured baselines. Tire contact comes to mind, reducing pressure does not improve the percentage of tire making contact with the ground within a range of enough to support the sidewall but below cupping the outer diameter. Everyone who hasn't experienced this phenomenon will lose this bet, even Goodyear scientists had to do some soul searching when this physics anomaly was proven. Took them years to catch up to Micky Thompson and most of it was because they were dead wrong about the physics.

Disc golf form is in a similar situation. You have lots people of various skill levels and analysis capability all throwing data out there and I think some coaches and form gurus will find themselves backtracking as the consensus becomes more solidified.

 

[itlnstln]

This popped up again on the main page, and I remember reading it and feeling like I didn't really agree before.

How do you all feel about this quote? True? Nah? I DO believe people overestimate the importance and actual distance gains that an x-step adds, but that isn't entirely the point he was making.

Quick edit: I am not at all saying an x-step is not going to add distance. Clearly it is the vastly preferred way to throw far and Im sure it does help, when done right. Personally I just like being able to not give a s*** about 99% of lies I have to work with.

The specifics might be questionable, but I think it's on the right track. Maybe a different way to look at it is there's a maximum efficiency in the "business end" of the throw that needs to be there before adding on to it. I've always been of the mind that we don't focus enough in the last 6-12" of the throw and spend more time talking about coiling, bracing, etc.
It's not that those things aren't important, but if they're feeding a poor snap/release, those other things won't be as helpful

 

[RowingBoats]

The specifics might be questionable, but I think it's on the right track. Maybe a different way to look at it is there's a maximum efficiency in the "business end" of the throw that needs to be there before adding on to it. I've always been of the mind that we don't focus enough in the last 6-12" of the throw and spend more time talking about coiling, bracing, etc.
It's not that those things aren't important, but if they're feeding a poor snap/release, those other things won't be as helpful

See, this is kinda what I was hoping came up, thanks! And I feel like that is what Dan Beto was trying to say too.

To me, his statement almost reminds me of describing the Beto Drill, but...can y'all throw a mid 275' like that?!

 

[Sewer bill]

See, this is kinda what I was hoping came up, thanks! And I feel like that is what Dan Beto was trying to say too.

To me, his statement almost reminds me of describing the Beto Drill, but...can y'all throw a mid 275' like that?!

I'll make a note to try tomorrow and report back. I use a walk wheel so there won't be any gps distance fudging.

 

[Sheep]

we can address this simply.

Equal and opposite.

You can only generate so much forward force with only so much backwards force.

So your brace resistance has to be equal to the level of energy you are directing into the throw.

 

[RowingBoats]

I'll make a note to try tomorrow and report back. I use a walk wheel so there won't be any gps distance fudging.

I'm gonna go back and work on that drill too sometime today/tomorrow.

I do have something of a "beto drill" swing that I use every round but its just for like 175' ish putter upshots. Admittedly it is piss easy to throw that far with no 'reachback' so maybe I can throw farther than I think like that.

But it still feels like a body move, not an arm move.

 

[Sheep]

I'm gonna go back and work on that drill too sometime today/tomorrow.

I do have something of a "beto drill" swing that I use every round but its just for like 175' ish putter upshots. Admittedly it is piss easy to throw that far with no 'reachback' so maybe I can throw farther than I think like that.

But it still feels like a body move, not an arm move.

Make sure to practice the power tripod.

It's kinda like the double move, but you brace 2 times in the throw for a double brace.


pocket throw is actually insanely easy if you focus on good push out and a good wrist pop.

 

[RowingBoats]

Make sure to practice the power tripod.

It's kinda like the double move, but you brace 2 times in the throw for a double brace.


pocket throw is actually insanely easy if you focus on good push out and a good wrist pop.

Aight homie, what is the power tripod? I haven't heard that one I don't think.