So many divisions!!!!!!!!W

[chris deitzel]

Why do we have so many PDGA divisions?

Why can't we just have a Pro mens division, a Pro Womens division, and then an Amateur division and an AM womens division?

Eliminate all merch payouts to ams. Trophies only.

This will grow the fields, so now you will be playing in larger fields.

And more people will move into the pro division that are top ams because they want to try and win something.

I think I am going to start doing this for all of my PDGA events.


So sick of playing events with 14 pro men and 12 pro masters. Would be a lot more fun to play against 26 players. If you are a Pro master that feels he can't compete in the pro division, guess what, you are probably really just an advanced player.

 

[Pwingles]

Lots of vendors, shops, and whatnot who provide payout to these things. Doing this takes that away and its a significant chunk of their income


*if it were more widespread than your tourneys specifically

 

[chris deitzel]

ok. And what is wrong with that?

Why should an amateur be paid out in anything? I never got anything in any other sports I played as an am.

 

[bradharris]

Am and pro aren't divisions, they are statuses. There's no reason we need to separate them. Let those that want to play for payouts "buy-in" if they want a chance to win money. It's ridiculous that we crown more than 10 different "champions."

This divisional structure is actually turning me off to tournaments. The only reason I play them now is for the social aspects.

 

[chris deitzel]

AS PDGA #284 reminds me all the time, when he signed up for the PDGA he had a choice to select Men or Women.

 

[notBOB]

I agree. I always felt only Advanced and obviously Open should be the only divisions paying out. Advanced people can still double dip or bounce back and forth accepting merch or funny money, thus feeding players into the true "professional" ranks and all below have reason to improve and compete, to get better.

It doesnt make sense to pay out lower divisions, what incentive is there to move up? In turn the rest of the money can boost players packs and stack the open payouts.

 

[Thumber]

Lots of vendors, shops, and whatnot who provide payout to these things. Doing this takes that away and its a significant chunk of their income


*if it were more widespread than your tourneys specifically

Vendors are the reason we have this bizarre payout for ams. If you want to give back to the ams, give really great players packs instead of rewarding the winner with a voucher to a store where he has to "buy" plastic at inflated prices.

I tend to agree with Chris that the model is broken

Ams I have talked to do not want their entry fee going to pad the open payout and I can understand that sentiment

 

[prerube]

ok. And what is wrong with that?

Why should an amateur be paid out in anything? I never got anything in any other sports I played as an am.

One of the things that get people to start tourneys is the possibility of getting a new disc. New players appreciate the disc payout, the old advanced and open guys dont want discs.
If you want to go cash only, you will kill several small disc vendors who use tourney payout as a way to stay in business.

 

[1978]

ok. And what is wrong with that?

Why should an amateur be paid out in anything? I never got anything in any other sports I played as an am.

If you don't get this, you dont get business. Example: Without Am payout Dynamic Discs doesnt grow to sponsoring so many tournaments. Without that cash flow, they don't partner with L64 and make some neato discs.

LS, Sunking, Dynamic amd all the local clubs benefit from Am Payout.

You need Am payouts to make money for the local clubs or disc retailer, plain and simple; regardless of what you feel about Am's getting discs. It is marketing. It is easier to pay 100% out then get 50% back in the wholesale/retail conversion than to use 20% to purchase trophies explain the low payout, and then only make 30%.

 

[prerube]

I think I may misunderstand you. I would be ok with: Open should get cash payout, advanced get discs, and intermediate and rec get trophy only.
However many intermediate players who will never make it to advanced level get excited when they recieve their $10 voucher. So there is a valid arguement that intermediate should not be funding the other two groups payout.

 

[apparition]

Five Classes: Professional Men, Professional Women, Amateur, Amateur Women, Junior Boys and Girls
30 Divisions: 7 Pro Men, 5 Pro Women, 8 Amateur, 6 Amateur Women, 4 Juniors

Personally I think the Master, Grandmaster, Senior Grandmaster, Legend, Senior Legend, and Grand Legend is... most interesting.

 

[Pwingles]

ok. And what is wrong with that?

Why should an amateur be paid out in anything? I never got anything in any other sports I played as an am.

Its not about what you got or didnt get. Its about hurting businesses that have become important to some areas even putting on events.

I do understand your frustration though.

 

[notBOB]

One of the things that get people to start tourneys is the possibility of getting a new disc. New players appreciate the disc payout, the old advanced and open guys dont want discs.
If you want to go cash only, you will kill several small disc vendors who use tourney payout as a way to stay in business.

business owner could always boost the plyers packs and take more entry money straight to the register rather than buying merch. im no expert, but theres got to be a balance somehow. not everyone can expect to win new plastic.

 

[wake911]

Pro should be only paying division. If you don't desire to turn pro, don't turn pro. You can stay amateur and play for trophy's/points/entry to bigger tournaments as long as you'd like to. I'm also ok with the am entry's to help fund the pro purse slightly. Lower am entries to much lower levels, don't use entry as players pack, if you get items donated, use it, otherwise no player packs. Use entry fees to buy trophies for the am divisions (make them cool and people will dig them) extra money goes into the pro pools with a cut going to the club running the tournament.

edit: i don't understand how no merch payouts would hurt businesses? that seems counter intuitive to me. Doesn't the vendor provide a discout rate to the club for those payouts, therefore making less money on that disc sale than if i go up and buy it myself after the round?

 

[grodney]

One of the things that get people to start tourneys is the possibility of getting a new disc. New players appreciate the disc payout

PFFFFT! Says who? Anecdotal at best.

 

[chris deitzel]

Perhaps those businesses shouldn't be in the disc golf business.

Everything was just fine 15 years ago when you had to order from Discovering the World or Disc Golf World and you would send them money orders. Too many vendors now anyway.

Yeah, it's nice to win discs, I remember those days. But, I was always working to play for money. I ended up giving away almost everything I ever won merchwise.

 

[prerube]

PFFFFT! Says who? Anecdotal at best.

I help run a lot of tourneys where the players are all relatively new. The winners of the advanced division are usually 900-930 rated players. The people at these tournaments really appreciate disc pay out. It means more when they can tell their buddies they won the disc they are using.

I see both sides. The competitor part of me agrees Ams should be trophy only. The part of me that works at growing the sport likes seeing the AMs get their payout. As more people move up, newer people will benefit.

 

[DavidSauls]

AS PDGA #284 reminds me all the time, when he signed up for the PDGA he had a choice to select Men or Women.

Isn't that evidence that we've already tried the small-number-of-big-divisions format? (Heck, my brother and I ran an event with just 2 divisions, Pro & Am, from 2001-2008 or therebouts. It can still be done.).

 

[chris deitzel]

It will mean even more when they can say they won $20 for last place cash in the Pro division, even though they are only rated 940.

Days of prizes for ams is coming to and end. Glad to see the Am Worlds is trophy only this year.


I ran my event a few weeks ago with no masters fields. We had a full field and the largest Pro and Advanced field that we have had in a local event in a long time.

 

[bradharris]

Its not about what you got or didnt get. Its about hurting businesses that have become important to some areas even putting on events.

The problem about this attitude is that you want to treat tournaments as retail events, where shopping is the highest priority and good competition is secondary.