Star Dart

[Ryan C]

I just wanted to start a thread to represent one of my new favorite discs. They are classified as putters, but really are as long as most midranges. I heard someone give advice to a player on here that Darts overlap with Kites. This is really terrible advice.

They are just extremely controllable and really very HSS. I can throw them about 315' completely flat and not have flip even the slightest bit. Your results may vary if your form isn't that clean. They wont handle tons of OAT, but with a reasonably clean throw they are completely stable. They have outstanding glide and feel great in the hand. Like a Buzzz, they don't need a high ceiling to fly well. They do great on nice, low, level throws.

This is just a recommendation I'm putting out there, so if you're in the market for a new neutrally stable midrange or fast putter, give these a try. I recommend a 175g Star Dart, as these are the ones I'm throwing. I really think you'll be pleased with them. I actually took my old beat up Buzzz out of the bag in favor of these, for straight tunnels in the 275-315 range. They are badly underrepresented, so buy one, and if you like it, tell your friends.

 

[Spike1]

I like Darts too. You can do so much with them. However, I was disappointed by the feel of that softer Star plastic. I had two of them and they were both very slippery. Soft but slippery. I hope they will be released in Champion, for that stiffer feel. That could be really interesting.

 

[zmannz1984]

I have never owned a star plastic dart but I have thrown one a lot. I did have a dx and an r pro version and I loved both of those for both putting and approaches. I will have to say, I thought the star version was verging on a comet in the need for a perfect release on any approach type shots. This did remind me a lot of the star kite. One love that I developed with these discs was that they always landed about 10 feet short of where I planned them too and rarely skipped, so good for parking a birdie in the woods or somewhere near a hazard.

I have since removed the darts from my bag though, for several reasons(still practice and play one disc rounds with my r pro though). The rpro discs (I have tried a bb aviar, aviar p&a and r pro dart) tend to roll very far from the basket if I shoot low and hit the basket side or skip it off the side. I do not like watching my putter roll for seconds after it hits the ground. The second reason for removing the dart specifically from the bag is that I can throw a straight, neutral stable mid a lot better than I use to and really manipulate the flight path with spin and release angle. I also thought up a real reason for why I like these now over approaching with putters. The max weight of any putter is gonna be right around 175 grams. For me the lighter a disc I use the more I can influence it with oat and angle to fly hard left or right, but the less control I have over the landing of the disc as it stabilizes and fades or turns out of flight. With a mako (i have signed into the cfr plastic camp and have 4 identical ones) I have a benefit of a 180-181 g disc that has nearly the same flight pattern as a putter at speed but really falls straight down and hard when it fades off the line. It works better in all conditions for me. It also has a little bit more give on release angle as long as I snap hard. I like that I can throw it that way because I feel I can better manipulate the natural turnover and fade of the disc.

On the subject of putting, I can make some really long shots with my dart that I usually float my kc aviar away from, but in a head- or side wind I can't hit the broad side of a barn with the dart. In a tailwind it falls way too fast dropping like a dinner plate. I started practicing my putting a lot from 10-100 feet and I see a natural advantage of a stable disc like the kc pro aviar over the darts more straight line. The difference I see is that when throwing a straight putter at a basket, you have to aim at the front of the basket facing you and keep the flight of the putter straight between you and the pin. Any deviation from a straight line with an understable disc and it isn't gona cross that line again, its gonna fade or turn off and keep going that new direction. With a stable putter, you can fade the disc into the basket and throw it wide some. As long as you throw it right some, even if you widen the shot a little at least you have a chance of it flexing back to the basket. This also makes the disc fall down into the basket more sideways and slower than a laser straight flight coming in fast. I tend to get less bounce outs that way.

 

[JR]

It was me saying that Kites and Darts have overlap. Kite is faster and way longer and both don't handle winds well and need a pure release. I threw them side by side in a shootout yesterday and both fly the same except the Kite is longer but can be thrown to duplicate what the Dart does on drives and approaches. Putting is probably better left to the Dart. Don't get me wrong i like Darts but think there are better discs out there for wind tolerance, similar type of flight, reliablílity and repeatability for putts and drives.

 

[SirRaph]

A really fascinating disc. Very HSS, as the OP said, yet dead nuts straight. If LAT64 made it, it would be the most popular disc on the market.

The one I have is Star, and got really floppy. Which I dont like.

I just couldn't find a spot for it in my bag. Driving it, it was midrange long. But i have midranges for that. its too floppy to use as a putter, and it felt too floppy to quick snap it on approaches. And my challengers feel better in the hand.

I play with a guy who throws a 150g Asia Open champion Dart. It's a really fun disc to throw.

 

[peppermack]

The echos are the best IMO. I have one, if I threw them it would be the one I would go with.

 

[zmannz1984]

I have been meaning to ask, are the echo star mids and putters more or less flexible than regular star? I see many folks with green echo* drivers around and they seem to have more dense material(translating into less total disc material making it feel kind of thin) than a star. I have what I think is an eco star usdgc star roc because its green like the drivers I've seen but it feels really great in the hand. It's stiffer yet a little more grippy than a star san marino in similar weight. It also flies similar to a dx or kc than a star.

 

[Ryan C]

The Echo Star Darts I've felt have been very similar, if not maybe very slightly stiffer.

I still have to strongly disagree on the Kite comparison. I've thrown Kites, which are significantly understable, while Darts are not. I have an Orange Star Dart that is borderline overstable. It has a very strong fade.

I should have mentioned that the Star Darts are gummy, which I personally like, but some prefer stiffer discs.

 

[dgdrifter]

The Echo Star Darts I've felt have been very similar, if not maybe very slightly stiffer.

I still have to strongly disagree on the Kite comparison. I've thrown Kites, which are significantly understable, while Darts are not. I have an Orange Star Dart that is borderline overstable. It has a very strong fade.

I should have mentioned that the Star Darts are gummy, which I personally like, but some prefer stiffer discs.

Yes, Kites are understable, Darts are not.

 

[DiscGolfTeeSigns.com]

+1 for Dart love. a GREAT disc in R-Pro. Flexy in regular production Star, and firmer in Echo. never tested a DX but i see it being great too.

it's a shame this disc gets hated on so bad, probably because of the R-Boss blend. the R-Pro Dart is excellent plastic.

 

[jubuttib]

From the limited amount of exposure to the Star Dart I've had I'd say that along with the ION it's the straightest driving putter there is. The amount of HSS in relation to the lack of LSS is insane. Funny it doesn't get more love around here.

I also don't understand why everyone hates R-Pro as much as they do... All the driver blends I've seen have been crap, but the P-MD2s and R-Pro Aviars (and P-P1 Maniacs) I've seen have been nothing short of superb.

 

[Ryan C]

I'm just glad I didn't show my love of them and then have 10 people to proceed to tell me that Darts are shit and I should stop throwing them.

 

[zmannz1984]

They definitely have aplace, but they live in a world of many competitors with similar properties. I threw mine today on one disc rounds and had a great time with it. Also had some quality time with my comet. Sort of similar but I honestly the dart handles a drive better than the comet!

 

[JR]

For me doing a shootout with soft Ion, Z Comet, Star Dart and Star Kite all went straight. Ion and Dart didn't need initial hyzer for a flat flight and Comet and Kite needed two-three degrees im mostly 3 MPH 25F right rear to rear varying winds. So yes Kites are understable and it doesn't mean that hyzer flip doesn't exist. And i was on snow so with more power generation capability it'll fly farther and need a little more initial hyzer to flip to flat. So does a Dart probably but my grip didn't allow clean rips back when i last threw them without snow. I need to recheck them in the spring. I know i throw less stable stuff than most and have used ultralight Bosses and most can't handle those so take it with salt. I have intentionally tortured myself with flippy discs regularly for years to learn. They have insanely small windows of error. And when they are thrown correctly they give big time results. Just like Comets. And i claim that about Ions, Darts and Kites too. I wouldn't say that a Kite is any more difficult to throw than Comets but the height requirement is way lower with Kites and the distance potential way higher. I got too little D out of the Comets with the few shots i managed last time before freezing and leaving. So i don't have an exact D comparison for those.

Kite is fairway driver long, comet is mid long and Dart and Ion are short mid long. Once each of them is tamed scores will drop because they give you new kind of possibilities on tackling holes and do great things on conventional lines too. Especially when low to no fade is a must. Darts are the easiest of the bunch to throw. It doesn't mean that it's better than the Ion in flight and winds once the Ion is thrown properly. Ion is longer by the way but only by few feet usually in calm weather. In rear winds the difference was much larger and the Dart needed more height and power i couldn't generate in these conditions. In the winter Ions and Kites reign supreme for different distance ranges. Ions competing directly against Darts and Kites against what? I plan on getting Squalls and try to find a non fading Sabre otherwise it's Stalkers and Leopards that are the competition. For me Kite fades less than those. And doesn't take winds as well. I need to do a direct head to head test for D but they were fairly close last summer.

What to use is a matter of preference, cleanliness of form, winds and preference. Each of them works very well for me YMMV. Don't blame the disc if it doesn't work for you right away. I've documented my long woes with Ions, TBs, Rocs, Wizards etc. I don't know if my troubles are over but i've taken a step forward definitely. And can see about full summer time power and cleanliness of flight in April in Holland at the earliest.

I held one R-Pro Dart of the first run and it was super floppy and i hate that plastic with a vengeance. IIRC it has been changed to a stiffer one so it should be fine now. R-Pro Pig is great and P1 Maniac and P MD2 have no problems whatsoever from the plastic. R-Pro Boss eats you know what. Don't let the name fool you many R-Pros are great. Too bad that the good stuff shares a name with the bad.

 

[latitude]

@ Ryan C

Saw you were throwing MD2s as well. How would you compare these two? I myself likes the S MD2 a lot, for dead straight shots. What spot would the Star Dart fit that the MD2 doesn't?

 

[JoshEpoo]

It's a good disc but it's not fully functional as a putter. It doesn't fly well nose up and it's so fast that it's not great for running at baskets. It's essentially a midrange driver, which it does nicely.

The things you say about it are true. It's got nice HSS in relation to the LSS. It's main strength is it's ability to drive distances above 150' dead straight. The reason the Dart may not enjoy the success it might otherwise get is because, between a Mako and a putter, you can cover 99% of what a Dart does plus a little extra on both ends.

I found the Mako to be very similar in feel/shape and flight pattern and eventually pulled the Dart just to lighten up my bag. I wasn't using it and instead added a zone for forehand utility and windy approaches in that slot.

 

[Spike1]

Speaking of Dart as a mid (...and this may be a little off topic now), it seems like it is only Innova who sees the value of making small diameter mids... They got Spider, Gator, Kite, Panther, Cro, Skeeter, Dart, Pig, Wedge, XD, Classic Roc... Ok, some of those may be approach discs more than they are mids, but anyway, that seems as more sm.diameter mids/appr.discs than what all the other manufacturers have together. If I count correctly. But I may be a bad counter :? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[dgdrifter]

At least half Innova's midrange line-up is small diameter. This I don't understand...they have plenty of fairway drivers.

 

[jubuttib]

I found the Mako to be very similar in feel/shape and flight pattern and eventually pulled the Dart just to lighten up my bag. I wasn't using it and instead added a zone for forehand utility and windy approaches in that slot.

I have to say that judging by the Makos I've thrown, the Star Dart is more HSS and less LSS.

But yeah, between my ION and MD2 I don't really see a point in using the Dart. A great disc for one disc rounds though.

 

[Ryan C]

@ Ryan C

Saw you were throwing MD2s as well. How would you compare these two? I myself likes the S MD2 a lot, for dead straight shots. What spot would the Star Dart fit that the MD2 doesn't?

The truth is that I may be dropping MD2's in favor of just darts, and add Buzzzes back. I've had brief flings with other discs, but I always go back. MD2's are nice discs, definitely. But they are not as long as Buzzzes. I wanted the MD2 because it was shorter than a Buzzz, but I found it to have a little bit too much low speed fade for that slot. If you want a direct comparison, I'd call the Dart an MD2 with less low speed fade, and a little less speed. I need the Dart for shorter drives that are within my normal putter range, but have a lower ceiling than my usual driving putter wants.