The Mickstar's ITB

[The Mickstar]

Vitals:
Age: 52
Years playing/experience: ~4.5 months (But I've play a LOT since then!)
Right/left-handed/ambidextrous: RH
Throwing Style: primarily RHBH, working on FH
Distances (max): Putter 200', Mid 250', Driver 300'

I rarely throw full power. Being so new, my distance is slowly improving with the same effort. All of my discs are in the 173-175g weight range, with the exception of the Roadrunner, which is 166g.

My current bag:

Putting Putters:
Gateway Wizard (Glow)
Gateway Warlock (Eraser)

The Wizard is my primary. The Warlock is when the Wizard isn't feeling right and longer putts where the Wizard may hyzer too much.

Throwing Putters:
Lat64 Pure (Opto)
Axiom Envy (Soft Neutron)

These are used for driving, approaches, whatever. Pure for straight or turnover, Envy when I need a little stability/fade.

Approach Discs:
Lat64 Fuji (OptoG)
Discraft Zone (Cryztal Flx)

Both are OS, the Zone is just more OS. Both are used for FH approaches.

Mids:
Westside Tursas (VIP)
Axiom Hex (Neutron)
MVP Reactor (Eclipse)
MVP Resistor (Neutron)

I have to be careful with the Tursas so I don't turn it over too much, but it flies great when I can remember. The Resistor is used mainly for FH or when I need big stability. I could probably take the Reactor out and not miss it. It just fills the stability gap between the Hex & Resistor, which I don't seem to need very often.

Fairway Drivers:
Westside Underworld (VIP)
Lat64 River (Opto)
MVP Terra (Neutron)

The Underworld is basically a longer Tursas. It'll flip if I'm not careful. The River is very straight, but will turn. The Terra is basically a longer Resistor. There is a stability gap between the River & Terra, similar to the space the Reactor fills for my mids. I may look for something to fill it.

Distance Drivers:
Westside Hatchet (VIP)
Innova Roadrunner (Star)
Axiom Insanity (Cosmic Neutron)
Discraft Thrasher (ESP)

The Hatchet & Roadrunner are my hyzer flip/turnover discs, the difference being that the Roadrunner turns slightly less and fades slightly more. My Insanity is much more stable than the numbers would have you believe. I can't turn the Thrasher and it has a moderate fade. I trust it to not go right and into the wind.

Thoughts?

 

[ray1970]

Thoughts?

Reminds me of my bag when I was first starting. Not that the discs are the same but more the fact that I had a wide range of molds trying to cover every possible shot shape.

I can't speak for you or your game but will share that my game really improved as I started thinning down the number of molds I was bagging and started learning to rely on myself to throw the shots I needed and not so much the discs.

Obviously I don't know your game or skill set but my wife is currently bagging a wide array of discs in a wide variety of stabilities and her game can suffer because she'll second guess what disc she should throw.

 

[Brockness Monster]

I think the bag is fine. As you gain experience you may or may not want to thin down the molds. I have played with people that have a different mold for every shot that do very well, same with the mold minimalists. I tend more toward the minimalist side.

It seem like you have analyzed what your discs do with your current throwing ability. Any discs that seem to overlap in distance and flight might be an area to think about removing a disc to narrow your choices. Being new you could probably remove the Distance Drivers from your bag and shoot just as well. All in all, looks like a solid bag.

 

[ray1970]

I agree with most of what Brockness just posted. Everyone's game is different and different strokes for different folks and everyone needs to play their own game.

Just for fun though, if you stepped up to a hole that was 245' and the basket played slightly to the right of the fairway, what disc would you throw?

If I was playing with your bag I would have about seven different options and any of them would likely work but trying to choose between those seven discs is just too much for me to want to deal with.

With my bag I would probably have two discs to choose from and it would likely be a pretty easy choice depending on my mood or depending on what sort of throw I was feeling comfortable with that day.

Not telling you there is anything wrong with your bag but you did ask for thoughts.

 

[The Mickstar]

Just for fun though, if you stepped up to a hole that was 245' and the basket played slightly to the right of the fairway, what disc would you throw?

Assuming flat & no wind, I'd throw an easy turnover with either the Underworld or River. Just depends on how far "slightly" to the right I would need to turn, as well as the consequences for turning it too much vs not enough.

Tailwind would push me toward the Underworld. Mild headwind would push me toward the River. Stronger headwind would likely be the Thrasher.

Speaking in generalities... I'll almost always power down vs power up. And I usually choose the most US disc I can safely get away with.

Of course you (I) *could" throw multiple discs for that distance. You could say that about just about any shot/distance. LOL It's a game of percentages if you want to score well.

 

[ray1970]

Thanks. My hypothetical hole question was legit so thanks for the reply.

I don't like to power down on anything if I can avoid it so our games are totally different.

If you're still posting here in a couple of years I'll be interested to see how (or if) your bag evolves.

 

[The Mickstar]

If you're still posting here in a couple of years I'll be interested to see how (or if) your bag evolves.

I'm sure it will. I find myself having to be more & more careful with my US discs so as not to turn & burn. I'm sure that's partly just due to them breaking in, but I can now throw discs that were meathooks (for me) a couple of months ago pretty well. Shots on my local that were Underworld are now River (or even Hex), etc...

As long as I keep a good ace:lost disc ratio, I'll be happy! ��

 

[auzcar]

I too seem to score better with fewer discs/molds, at least more consistent, but I think for me yhe benefit is more about getting to know each discs flight better. I don't have the time to play enough to really learn a 20+ disc bag well enough to really know what everything does in every small shift in angle.

 

[The Mickstar]

I'm using the thread as a virtual log of how my bag changes over time as a new player.

My current bag:

Putting Putters:
Westside Maiden (BT Hard)
Westside Crown (BT Hard)

Throwing Putters:
Lat64 Pure (Opto)
Axiom Envy (Soft Neutron)

Approach Disc:
Innova Caiman (Star)

Mids:
Westside Tursas (VIP)
Westside Warship (VIP)
DD Emac Truth (Lucid)
Innova Gazelle (Pro)
Discraft Buzzz OS (Big Z)

Fairway Drivers:
Lat64 River (Opto)
Axiom Crave (Plasma)
Westside Stag (VIP Chameleon)

Distance Drivers:
Westside Hatchet (VIP)
Innova Firebird (Star)
Discraft Anax (ESP)
Discraft Thrasher (ESP)
Discraft Zeus (ESP)

 

[The Mickstar]

My current bag:

Putting Putters:
Westside Crown (BT Hard) x2

Throwing Putters:
Lat64 Pure (Opto)
Westside Maiden (VIP)
Axiom Envy (Soft Neutron)

Approach Disc:
Innova Caiman (Star)

Mids:
Westside Tursas (VIP)
Discmania Mind Bender (C-Line)
DD Emac Truth (Lucid)
DD Verdict (Lucid)

Fairway Drivers:
Lat64 River (Opto)
Axiom Crave (Plasma)
Westside Stag (VIP Chameleon)
Westside Stag (Tournament)

Control Drivers:
Westside Hatchet (VIP)
Lat64 Saint (Opto)

Distance Drivers:
Discraft Hades (ESP)
Innova Wraith (Star)

 

[The Mickstar]

My current bag:

Putting Putters:
Westside Crown (BT Hard) x2

Throwing Putters:
Lat64 Pure (Opto)
Westside Maiden (VIP)
Axiom Envy (Soft Neutron)
Streamline Stabilizer (Cosmic Neutron)

Approach Disc:
Streamline Runway (Neutron)

Mids:
Westside Tursas (VIP)
Discmania Mind Bender (C-Line)
DD Emac Truth (Lucid)
Discmania Method (Vapor)

Fairway Drivers:
Lat64 River (Opto)
Discmania FD (C-Line)
Lat64 Explorer (Opto)

Control Drivers:
Legacy Nemesis (Pinnacle)
Lat64 Saint (Opto)
Innova Valkyrie (Star)

Distance Drivers:
Discraft Hades (ESP)
Innova Wraith (Star)
Streamline Trace (Cosmic Neutron)

 

[The Mickstar]

My current bag:

Putting Putters:
Westside Maiden (BT Hard)

Throwing Putters:
Lat64 Pure (Opto)
Westside Maiden (VIP)
Axiom Envy (Soft Neutron)
Streamline Stabilizer (Cosmic Neutron)

Approach Disc:
Kastaplast Berg (K1 Soft)

Mids:
Westside Tursas (VIP)
Westside Warship (VIP)
DD Emac Truth (Lucid)
DD Verdict (Lucid)

Fairway Drivers:
Westside Underworld (VIP)
Discmania Essence (Neo)
Westside Stag (Tournament)
Innova Firebird (Star)

Control Drivers:
Legacy Nemesis (Pinnacle)
Lat64 Saint (Opto)
Innova Valkyrie (Star)

Distance Drivers:
Discraft Hades (ESP)
Innova Wraith (Star)

 

[Three Putt]

My current bag:

Putting Putters:
Westside Maiden (BT Hard)

Throwing Putters:
Lat64 Pure (Opto)
Westside Maiden (VIP)
Axiom Envy (Soft Neutron)
Streamline Stabilizer (Cosmic Neutron)

Approach Disc:
Kastaplast Berg (K1 Soft)

Mids:
Westside Tursas (VIP)
Westside Warship (VIP)
DD Emac Truth (Lucid)
DD Verdict (Lucid)

Fairway Drivers:
Westside Underworld (VIP)
Discmania Essence (Neo)
Westside Stag (Tournament)
Innova Firebird (Star)

Control Drivers:
Legacy Nemesis (Pinnacle)
Lat64 Saint (Opto)
Innova Valkyrie (Star)

Distance Drivers:
Discraft Hades (ESP)
Innova Wraith (Star)

Where are you throwing most of the time? I'd guess right now you have to play Quail mostly until the lights get out of Fort Zumwalt. Are you finding you lean on certain discs at certain courses, or is it more shot-to-shot dependent?

 

[The Mickstar]

With The Fort closed, the closest course to me is The Meadows. I've been spreading the love around, though. I like the layout at Quail, but I hate the way those rocky fairways beat the crap out of discs (and it can be treacherous if it's wet), so I don't play it too much. I work near the airport, so I've played all of the following recently: Turkey Hill, New Melle, Quail, ICC, Laurel, Railroad, Creve Coeur (both), Carrollton, White Birch, Hudson, Dunegant, Endicott. I probably missed one or two...

I played Willmore for the first time today. That's a nice layout, but a PITA to access because of River des Peres.

Unless I'm playing somewhere short (like Railroad, White Birch, etc.), I usually throw all of the discs in my bag at some point during a typical round. If I had to pick a couple of favorites, it would be my Emac Truth & Stag, I suppose.

 

[The Mickstar]

Oh, and my Wraith. I don't know what I'm going to do if/when I ever lose it. I have four Wraiths total, and the one in my bag is the only one that flies the way it does. I do have a new VIP Sword that flies like my Wraith, but once it breaks in...

 

[The Mickstar]

My current bag:

Putting Putters:
Westside Crown (BT Hard)

Throwing Putters:
Lat64 Pure (Opto)
Axiom Envy (Soft Neutron)
Streamline Stabilizer (Cosmic Neutron)

Approach Disc:
Kastaplast Berg (K1 Soft)
Discraft Zone (Cryztal Flx)

Mids:
Westside Tursas (VIP)
Axiom Hex (Neutron)
DD Emac Truth (Lucid)
Discraft Malta (ESP)

Tweener:
Axiom Crave (Plasma)
MVP Relay (Neutron)

Fairway Drivers:
Westside Underworld (VIP)
Westside Stag (VIP Chameleon)
Westside Stag (Tournament)
Innova Firebird (Star)

Control Drivers:
Legacy Nemesis (Pinnacle)
Lat64 Saint (Opto)
Innova Valkyrie (Star)

Distance Drivers:
Discraft Hades (ESP)
Innova Wraith (Star)
Innova Wraith (Star)

 

[Mist Mando]

I kinda felt I had to register just to comment on the similarity of our bags. Of the 10 discs in my bag, 6 molds are in your current bag and 2 more are in your previous lists. On top of that, the mold I most recently removed from my bag is in your current list as well.

My current and fairly settled bag is this:

K1 Soft Berg
Opto Pure

Z Zone
VIP Warship
VIP Tursas

Opto XXX
VIP Stag
VIP Underworld

Proton Trace
Opto Bolt

And the disc I most recently removed was Blizzard Wraith in favour of the Trace.

Aside from the base plastic putter, what would you most feel like you were missing if you were to play this bag (maybe with the Firebird and Hades/Thrasher subbed in for XXX and Bolt)?

I've thrown 9-speeds on the stable to understable side including Valkyrie, Lots, Heat and OLS, but don't find any particular need for them within the current triangle of Stag-Underworld-Bolt.

As a 300' thrower my ranging is not stretched out enough that I find tweeners are really needed, and the Warship is (should be) long enough to further alleviate the need somewhat. I'd throw a nice PLS if you put it in my hands, but I'm not sure how much it'd add. When I bagged a Kaxe Z it was probably my least thrown disc by some margin.

I've reflected on the absence of a Drone/Anchor/Verdict type overstable mid, I'm just not sure how often I'd throw it in between the Zone and XXX.

 

[The Mickstar]

Aside from the base plastic putter, what would you most feel like you were missing if you were to play this bag (maybe with the Firebird and Hades/Thrasher subbed in for XXX and Bolt)?

I've thrown 9-speeds on the stable to understable side including Valkyrie, Lots, Heat and OLS, but don't find any particular need for them within the current triangle of Stag-Underworld-Bolt.

As a 300' thrower my ranging is not stretched out enough that I find tweeners are really needed, and the Warship is (should be) long enough to further alleviate the need somewhat. I'd throw a nice PLS if you put it in my hands, but I'm not sure how much it'd add. When I bagged a Kaxe Z it was probably my least thrown disc by some margin.

I've reflected on the absence of a Drone/Anchor/Verdict type overstable mid, I'm just not sure how often I'd throw it in between the Zone and XXX.

There are two discs I'd miss with your bag.

1. Lucid Emac Truth

It's definitely one of my favorite discs. Super versatile and long for its stability. Maybe not quite as long as a VIP Warship, but close. Makes tweeners even less necessary.

2. Pinnacle Nemesis

I don't understand why noone talks about this disc. It has a great combo of being pretty flippy, but almost never burns over. It's much less touchy than my VIP Hatchet in that regard. It's a wonderful anhyzer disc and gets great distance on pretty low effort flex shots.

I don't throw my Saint much. My more US Stag covers the same shots pretty easily. My Valkyrie is pretty stable, though. It has similar stability to my more stable Stag, but is usefully longer.

 

[Mist Mando]

One of my buddies should have an Emac Truth he isn't throwing (he went all Kasta), so I should be able to borrow that. Remains to be seen if I'd find more uses for it than the Kaxe Z, but if I end up playing more solo rounds this year, maybe I could use it for player 2 shots to get a feel for its usefulness.

Never saw a Nemesis, but just going by the numbers the closest thing I have is a found Sapphire, which is another disc I felt wasn't worth carrying around to fill a gap of a few metres between the Underworld and Bolt. I've only thrown a Hades a few times, but I assume it can do multiple lines as well. (Apparently a local web store, which has local pickup but no browsing, stocks the Nemesis. I'm kinda resolved not to frivolously buy discs this year, but I can make a mental note of this as another driver I'm resolved to not buy in particular, like the Lifts and Vandals and Mantises and Undertakers and what have you.)

I've thrown and loved the DX Valkyrie (first disc to break 300 for me), of course the issue with DX is that even when you're not hitting trees you're seeing it get more understable in real time. Based on my experience with Innova premium plastics I've never been able to convince myself a Champion or even Star Valkyrie would be anywhere close to the same thing.

A discounted Opto Air Saint may be my most disappointing purchase. First throw went pin high, 30-40 degrees in the wrong direction. Maybe some field work which I may never get around to could unlock its secrets.

 

[The Mickstar]

The Emac Truth is definitely worth a shot. I have a K1 Soft Kaxe Z. Despite their similar flight numbers (5/5/0/2 vs 6/5/0/2), they fly nothing alike. Thrown flat, my Emac will fly straight for the first 80% of the flight, then have a pushing (not dumping) fade once it starts to slow. The same throw with my Kaxe Z, it will turn the first 70% of its flight and fade just a little at the end, finishing right of the line it started on.

I have two ESP Hades. Both are seasoned, but I'm not sure how much since both were un-inked finds. They both fly the same. Released on a slight hyzer (~15 degrees), they flip up to flat and go dead straight pretty-much their whole flight. Maybe just a tiny fade at the end. If I were to throw the Nemesis on that same release, it would flip all the way to a gentle turn right for the first 80% of its flight, but would fight back just a little at the end, finishing a little right of the line it started on. If I were to throw my Undertaker on the same release, it would flip all the way over and glide right the entire way. And if I wasn't careful, it may burn over. For reference, I throw the Hades ~320 feet, the Nemesis ~300 feet, and the Underworld ~270 feet. So, not a huge distance spread, but different lines.

To be honest, I never would have bought the Nemesis (or any Legacy disc for that matter). It was another un-inked find that just so happened to work out. It's a very glide-y disc, like the Underworld. It doesn't have to be thrown hard to get distance. I think of it as a slightly longer, less touchy Underworld.

My son has a DX Valkyrie. It flies absolutely nothing like my Star. Innova calls the Valkyrie a 9/4/-2/2. A 4 Glide rating is low, IMO. My Star is much more HSS & LSS than his DX. I'd call his DX a 9/5/-3/1 and my Star a 9/5/-0.5/2/5.