Thumber and Tomahawk help?

[MNTreekiller]

I have very limited experience with overhead shots but they have proved useful for extremely specific flight patterns. one thing i've noticed is that I have no problem throwing thumbers(under 150 ft. that is) however when I try to throw a tomohawk with the same disc I can not get it to fully flip and fall left before it hits the ground. It usualy lands when it is almost to the upside down portion of flight. I could use some insight as to why this is happening, i thought they were virtualy the same shot? I use a champion leapord because I like it to flip quicky(I dont throw them for distance.)
Thanks

 

[knettles]

Im the same way. A thumber is naturally easier to tilt slightly to the right (rh) so it gets the full flip. A tomahawk has to tilted slightly left, which is more difficult to me. Also, try using a more understable disc for tomahawks (DX plastic maybe). Overstable discs flip slower. Hope that helps.

 

[slowplastic]

I don't do them often either, but I think it's typical for people to notice thumbers flip faster/more stable discs than tomahawks. My best reasoning is first as knettles said, that the thumber is already partially angled in the direction it is going to flip (the tomahawk has to flip a bit just to get to vertical, whereas the thumber is already past its vertical point). As well I think that I get a less torquey release with a tomahawk since it's a forehand type grip, so it is a bit cleaner, which makes it flip slower. My thumbers are going to have more OAT which means faster flip.

I don't know how the OAT argument on tomahawk vs. thumbers for guys who throw them all the time goes, but I think it's a pretty big factor for me.

 

[DiscJunkie]

Same for me with the slower flip on tommies.
My reasoning has always been that since my thumb is stronger, I get a better spin and snap on my thumber, making it act less stable.
The other, most obvious reason is just the velocity imparted to the disc is faster on my thumber.
Still working on the tommie, and getting better with speed and distance and control.
By all means, stick with it. Try a less stable disc. Remember the most important aspect of overhands is predictability and control, not distance. Distance will come over time.

 

[mm1315]

It all depends on the angle you're releasing, if your head is noon on a clock you release a thumber at about 1-2 for a tom you need to come over your head and release at the 11 o'clock position. Also it's more over stable discs like firebirds, apes and stilettos if you want the tom to flip. How are you propelling it to? To many use their shoulder it's really more like swinging a hammer it's all elbow and forearm. Have a buddy that was a pitcher say it's just like pitching if that gives you any ideas and if you're going for distance you need an epic.

 

[akray21]

Man, I am the opposite. I can throw a tomahawk over 300' (close to 325'), but a thumber I can't get past 100' lol. My tomahawk throws are actually farther than my backhand throws :\.

On my tomahawk I just act as if I am throwing a baseball and really snap my two fingers down, which I believe causes the disc to spin more and roll faster.

Have a buddy that was a pitcher say it's just like pitching if that gives you any ideas and if you're going for distance you need an epic.

I couldn't agree more with this statement, it is just like throwing a baseball. But I see it more like throwing into the cutoff man from the wall, because you get to use a hop. I use a Latitude XXX.

 

[Puckstopper]

I use a Champ Teebird for accurate thumbers, and a Proton Inspire for tomahawks. The lower stability of the Inspire helps it roll faster in the air, and make up for a lower amount of snap I get on my tomahawk throws. I don't really throw either shot for max distance, but when I want to stretch out a thumber I move to either a Star Firebird, or a Neutron Resistor, depending on which one I have in my bag.

 

[AndyJB]

I was never a pitcher, but I did play a lot of baseball (3rd base) but, funny enough, I've actually been playing disc golf longer; though not seriously.

Anyway, after all these years of playing, I never even tried a thumber until 2 years ago. I always threw tommys and just varied the angle of my wrist on release to get the disc to go one way or the other. The kicker was, I could never get distance...just never thought about it. After seeing some videos of people bombing forehand and seeing my buddy Steve do it in person, I started working on it. I started with line drive thumbers, then moved on to distance. I'm still no 300 foot overhand crusher, but I'm a little more reliable.

To the OP: you'll hear lots of different opinions, but I would certainly listen to the guys who can throw overhand 300 feet or more with control. There's more than a few on these forums, to say nothing of the OH killers in the thread here. Just like any shot, it requires practice. The thing with practice in disc golf is that you have to work with your body. You already have a baseline, since you've been throwing OH already you have a good idea of how your body reacts. Now there's nothing to it but to listen to the advice here, grab discs of different stabilities, and work on it until you nail it.

It also helps if you can take video of you throwing OH. You'll get even more great advice that way.

 

[DiscJunkie]

Man, I am the opposite. I can throw a tomahawk over 300' (close to 325'), but a thumber I can't get past 100' lol. My tomahawk throws are actually farther than my backhand throws :\.
.

Man, we ought to meet up and teach each other a few things:hfive:

Seriously, I would LOVE to spend some time trading notes with someone about overhands. I'll show you how to throw a thumber, and you can show me how to throw a tomahawk.

You probably live five states away, though.

 

[DiscDraft]

For tomahawks I have to make sure to get it up in the air so it can work. I can tell from the snap if I pop it up enough. Just like a baseball, you have to get a little air under it to get the distance.

I usually throw tomahawks and thumbers with either a PD or Firebird. The PD goes further...not quite 325' though...

 

[mm1315]

And for those working on a thumber like Brian Schweberger says it's just a tennis serve. So you might check some vids on that too.

 

[akray21]

Man, we ought to meet up and teach each other a few things:hfive:

Seriously, I would LOVE to spend some time trading notes with someone about overhands. I'll show you how to throw a thumber, and you can show me how to throw a tomahawk.

You probably live five states away, though.

Yeah! :hfive: I live in Kansas. Funny thing is I really have not studied my own tomahawk that much because it just came naturally to me. Next time I hit the field and record throws (planning on doing so in a few weeks), I will record some tomahawks and try to figure out what I am doing right.

My backhand is weaker than I would like, only around 280', and I have NO forehand either. It's kinda funny that my best shot is OH in a state with too much wind to even matter, lol.

 

[hook_nuts]

First time I ever threw a tomahawk it was 300+ feet and parked. I consistently can hit 350' and it's very accurate although I concentrate on backhand mostly now. It's all about getting a tight grip, crow hop, snap as you release, and follow through. I'm not good at disc golf, but I've had pros compliment my tomahawk. My mechanics are exactly like throwing a baseball so it's natural I guess. Shorter distances with no crow hop is basically the same. You need the firm grip, snap, and follow through and it will turn. It's more important than disc selection imo.

 

[hook_nuts]

It's kinda funny that my best shot is OH in a state with too much wind to even matter, lol.

I live in Kansas. When fighting the wind just throw max weight on a fast lower line if possible. Might have to aim a little different, but with enough on it, it should fight the wind well and be very predictable.

 

[akray21]

First time I ever threw a tomahawk it was 300+ feet and parked. I consistently can hit 350' and it's very accurate although I concentrate on backhand mostly now. It's all about getting a tight grip, crow hop, snap as you release, and follow through. I'm not good at disc golf, but I've had pros compliment my tomahawk. My mechanics are exactly like throwing a baseball so it's natural I guess. Shorter distances with no crow hop is basically the same. You need the firm grip, snap, and follow through and it will turn. It's more important than disc selection imo.

I'm the exact same way, and would agree that it is just like baseball. If you don't have a baseball background, it may be a little more difficult to learn. I don't throw it unless I have to as it would be hard on the arm for 18 drives during a round. I stick with my 280' backhand, and I keep trying to improve.

I would recommend a highly OS fairway driver for distance on overhead shots as the disc stays vertical longer keeping its speed and making it fly further. The XXX feels really good in the hand IMO.

I live in Kansas. When fighting the wind just throw max weight on a fast lower line if possible. Might have to aim a little different, but with enough on it, it should fight the wind well and be very predictable.

Sometimes my XXX cuts right through the wind, other times it gets caught in a cross wind and blows way off course in 20mph gusts.

 

[AndyJB]

Sometimes my XXX cuts right through the wind, other times it gets caught in a cross wind and blows way off course in 20mph gusts.

Same thing with my Opto Scythe

 

[slowplastic]

Do any of you ever have the issue with tomahawks that when you throw them at less than ~70% power and "too" clean, they stay vertical/straight stable and hit the ground like a roller (as if I threw a clean forehand shot, but on a vertical plane)? Or is that just a case of if I have to throw a lower powered tomahawk, to disc down to a disc that will flip more easily?

 

[NathanNoodleArm]

Do any of you ever have the issue with tomahawks that when you throw them at less than ~70% power and "too" clean, they stay vertical/straight stable and hit the ground like a roller (as if I threw a clean forehand shot, but on a vertical plane)? Or is that just a case of if I have to throw a lower powered tomahawk, to disc down to a disc that will flip more easily?

I throw drivers and midranges for my tomahawk depending on distance. I vary the disc stability depending an what I want...more or less flip.

 

[mm1315]

Do any of you ever have the issue with tomahawks that when you throw them at less than ~70% power and "too" clean, they stay vertical/straight stable and hit the ground like a roller (as if I threw a clean forehand shot, but on a vertical plane)? Or is that just a case of if I have to throw a lower powered tomahawk, to disc down to a disc that will flip more easily?

You're not bringing it over your head enough, like in my previous post toms should be released about 10-11 o'clock if your head is 12. Sounds like you're releasing at 1-2 o'clock which is effectively a forehand roller but thrown higher.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

You're not bringing it over your head enough, like in my previous post toms should be released about 10-11 o'clock if your head is 12. Sounds like you're releasing at 1-2 o'clock which is effectively a forehand roller but thrown higher.

This is why I can't throw them. Elbow explosion.