Unplayable Lie Rule, please explain

[Innovadude]

The issue is identification. Lots of people aren't good at differentiating poison oak/ivy/sumac from other non poisonous plants, and it could easily be abused by claiming a bush is harmful when it's really not. You also run into issues like people who aren't affected by urushiol, do they still get relief? I have some major pollen allergies that can cause rashes and hives, do I get relief from flowers? Do you get relief from every plant on every course in Arizona, ruining the only thing that keeps those desert courses from being completely wide open?

It does suck that I've lost strokes taking relief from poison oak and ivy, but I do understand why they aren't automatically included. I take much more issue with TDs who don't take the time to mark and give relief from the stuff at their events.

Not impossible to overcome. Everyone has a smartphone with google in their bag nowadays. If I were to play tournament at most area courses in summer, I'd be out 2-10 strokes to move my lie per tournament to avoid serious ivy, or, play from it and go to the hospital after. Not much a choice. I won't play.

 

[bradharris]

should be "attached"

I know this scenario is about a trunk, but to clarify for other scenarios...if a dead branch of any kind is still attached, it doesn't matter whether you are "able" to move it, you're not allowed to move it.

But, how is it "attached" defined, does it matter what its attached to? What if it's attached to a fallen tree? The tree is no longer attached to the ground, so, can you break off any of its dead branches now?

Unable to move applies best to large, dead and unattached, tree trunks. There's no way you can move it without a whole team of people, so it is treated in the same way as a live tree would be.

 

[DavidSauls]

Not impossible to overcome. Everyone has a smartphone with google in their bag nowadays. If I were to play tournament at most area courses in summer, I'd be out 2-10 strokes to move my lie per tournament to avoid serious ivy, or, play from it and go to the hospital after. Not much a choice. I won't play.

Would you grant relief for those who claim allergy to campsis radicans? Nerium oleander? Asclepias species? I knew someone who was allergic to grass, of all things. Where do we draw the line?

On the other hand, I favor relief from thorns, if the wording could be fine-tuned. You don't have to know what kind of plant something is to see that it hurts to touch.

 

[DiscJunkie]

It does suck that I've lost strokes taking relief from poison oak and ivy, but I do understand why they aren't automatically included. I take much more issue with TDs who don't take the time to mark and give relief from the stuff at their events.

TD's best friends are (besides hard-working volunteers, of course) Round-up and rope/paint.
TD's, please take the time to eliminate or rope off or paint around those "nasties" that all the locals already know about, like:
crumbling, sandy, steep banks.
harmful biting/stinging ants/ant-hills.
ground nesting wasps or hornets.
low-hanging wasp or hornet nests.
poison ivy, oak or sumac plants (this is where the Round-up comes in handy).

Personally, I don't like the idea of taking a stoke to protect one's health & safety.

 

[DavidSauls]

Excellent.

Some parks won't allow herbicides. Short of that, I highly recommend them. We TDs can mark casual relief areas or declare poison ivy as a casual obstacle, but if the poison ivy is there allergic players still have to enter to retrieve their discs, and try to clean them. Plus, if treating poison ivy as casual you often need a drop zone or special rule, since patches are usually too big for 5 meters of relief to suffice.

Much better to remove the hazard, to the degree possible.

*

Our course once had tremendous problems with briars, and still has some nasty places. In our sanctioning agreements, we include a special rule that players can damage any thorny plants, wherever encountered---stance, follow-through, between lie and basket, wherever. Our rationale is that they're not an intended part of the course; we just haven't eradicated them all, yet.

 

[mashnut]

Not impossible to overcome. Everyone has a smartphone with google in their bag nowadays. If I were to play tournament at most area courses in summer, I'd be out 2-10 strokes to move my lie per tournament to avoid serious ivy, or, play from it and go to the hospital after. Not much a choice. I won't play.

You ignored some of my other points though. 20% of the population isn't reactive to urushiol, do they still get relief? What about severe allergies to other common plants' pollen? Those could be considered harmful plants too.

Would you grant relief for those who claim allergy to campsis radicans? Nerium oleander? Asclepias species? I knew someone who was allergic to grass, of all things. Where do we draw the line?

On the other hand, I favor relief from thorns, if the wording could be fine-tuned. You don't have to know what kind of plant something is to see that it hurts to touch.

That's kind of a regional thing though. If you give relief from thorns you remove the last little bit of challenge on a bunch of desert courses where not landing in a cactus is the only challenge already.

 

[tstack10]

Thanks for helping me understand the rule. Most of my friends use loose interpretations of the rules.

 

[DavidSauls]

That's kind of a regional thing though. If you give relief from thorns you remove the last little bit of challenge on a bunch of desert courses where not landing in a cactus is the only challenge already.

Good point. I've played in desert states, but not desert courses. I guess that brings us back to TD's discretion, and hoping it's wise.