Which is more important...

[Nick481]

Ahhh, maybe you're saying I am spinning it more but I'm also throwing it more powerfully with the form tweak. Quite possible.

As long as there is a nonzero spin and the disc is not wobbling at all during the flight, the total drag of the disc doesn't really change at all from low spin to high spin because its cross section is always the same. I could see spin being marginally helpful for say a buzz throw though because it is a very straight flier so it won't hyzer off and lose height as soon.

 

[John Q. Public]

Good stuff, thanks.

 

[DG_player]

Dawg... Im trying to help' you are not controlling spin. I seriously thought this was true as well but we just cannot humanly do it.

People have been modulating spin in other throwing sports for a long time. For instance in target throwing for knives and axes, it's extremely important to modulate spin (the last thing you want is the handle hitting the target). The biomechanics of it is you throw wider for less spin and tighter to the body for higher spin.

I'm not saying this would necessarily work in DG, I'm certainly not good enough to test it properly myself. But if you're throwing a low power shot, shouldn't you be able to adjust how tight to your body you pull the disc through?

 

[DiscFifty]

The examples I gave were identical distance so, no, not increasing forward velocity. The only difference is the amount of spin. Also, velocity is definitely not the bigger factor in stability. Gyroscopic STABILITY comes from spin. As someone pointed out a disc thrown without spin is about as aerodynamic as a bundle of laundry.

Interesting....that would make a great video. I use my gator for a variety of hard fades, s-curves, etc. I control the line via release angle and velocity, not concerned about the spin I put on it. hmm..

 

[DiscFifty]

I think you can control spin..if you wanted to , but I think it would have to happen at the grip and right before the hit. Because obviously the looser the grip at the hit, the less friction on the disc to spin the disc during ejection. I know this now because my rip finger has been slipping off the disc at the hit resulting in less distance for a long time, but now that I'm gripping very tight at the hit I'm spinning the disc more and getting more distance than ever. I always wondered why that elusive bomb would happen once in awhile, and it was because that throw had a tighter grip at the hit.

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

I think the disconnect we're having here is because, especially with drives, spin usually 'just happens' as a consequence of good form. Obviously some force of your drive is imparted to forward velocity, and a far lesser amount to spin, but, in a drive, the main factor on how much spin you get is snap. To complicate things, snap also imparts the last bit of forward acceleration. It's nearly impossible to make a change to one that doesn't also impact the other. But, even on a drive I'm usually aware of how much spin I'm attempting to impart with snap. We've all had those unpleasant shot results where we want to hold an anhyzer line but the disc comes back and fades away from the target. The culprit? Too little gyroscopic stability from too little spin (also possibly throwing the wrong disc, but even a majorly overstable disc can hold an anhyzer line with enough spin.),

 

[StevenSeagal]

Here's my two cents about controlling spin. If spin is the consequence of good mechanics than increased spin is consequence of even more efficient mechanics. When someone thinks they are intentionally imparting more spin on the disc they are; but only because the disc left their grip at a higher speed relative to their arm speed and have therefore achieved a higher smash factor opposed to higher rpm's relative to their arm and or ejection speed.

Jim throws a disc. The disc ejects from his grip at 80 mph at 2000 RPM's and travels 400ft.

Now Jim wants to try to impart more spin on the disc, probably by cocking his wrist more.

Jim throws another disc, same arm speed. Now the disc leaves his grip at 86 miles an hour at 2225 RPMs and travels 430ft.

Now Jim thinks he increased the spin on his disc only when in all actually he just increased his disc speed at ejection relative to his arm speed.

 

[joecoin]

Does anyone here shoot skeet? If so, is it possible to adjust the skeet throwing machine with regards to spin while keeping speed the same?

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

Here's my two cents about controlling spin. If spin is the consequence of good mechanics than increased spin is consequence of even more efficient mechanics. When someone thinks they are intentionally imparting more spin on the disc they are; but only because the disc left their grip at a higher speed relative to their arm speed and have therefore achieved a higher smash factor opposed to higher rpm's relative to their arm and or ejection speed.

Jim throws a disc. The disc ejects from his grip at 80 mph at 2000 RPM's and travels 400ft.

Now Jim wants to try to impart more spin on the disc, probably by cocking his wrist more.

Jim throws another disc, same arm speed. Now the disc leaves his grip at 86 miles an hour at 2225 RPMs and travels 430ft.

Now Jim thinks he increased the spin on his disc only when in all actually he just increased his disc speed at ejection relative to his arm speed.

You're assuming an all out drive - nearly impossible to adjust spin there. Take it down to an upshot requiring 80% or less of your maximum force. Now you're in the area where adding or subtracting spin by controlling snap becomes possible.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

mechanically how does that matter at all?

The reachback is just shorter on throws that are not full power drives. How do you physcially control the spin?

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

Here's two different disc flight paths on the same upshot (RHBH anhyzer to get around trees on the right). The shot on the left has enough spin to make the disc hold the anhyzer all the way to the basket without fading left. The shot on the right lacks the necessary spin and so it flattens out and fades left, missing the basket. You can angle the disc anhyzer, and/or use a very understable disc to make this shot easier, but even an understable disc released on an anhyzer will flatten out and fade if it has time to do it (or it turns over and becomes an unintentional roller).

If I were making this shot, I would flick or snap the disc on release (not the same as the snap of a full force drive) to ensure it had enough spin/gyroscopic stability to hold the anhyzer angle all the way to the basket. Despite what some have said in this thread, I can't get the desired flight path by throwing harder to ensure the line is held - I'd go way past the basket. Other than careful disc selection for the shot (or throwing sidearm, which I'm not very good at), the only thing I can do to make this shot using RHBH is ensure sufficient spin. If I had more confidence in my sidearm, I'd do that to switch the direction of fade. My point is is it is absolutely possible to adjust the amount of spin I put on this shot without affecting forward velocity too much. If there were more trees on the left making my only approach to the basket on the right, I'd back off on spin and try for a flight path more like the one on the right - a flex shot that starts anhyzer but flattens out and fades back left.

How would you make this shot? (Oh, and there's a 1,000 foot cliff soaring up on the right just out of the picture, so no hyzer bombing.)

 

[discRabbit]

Sounds like you need to learn a touch approach shot. Or alternatively choose the correct speed disc that will hold the intended line.

 

[discRabbit]

I like the image, reminds me of McIver

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

Sounds like you need to learn a touch approach shot. Or alternatively choose the correct speed disc that will hold the intended line.

Please define what 'touch approach shot' you would use in this situation as it's unclear to me what you mean. As for speed, I use a regular Nutsac disc bag that can hold, at most, 8 discs. I will never be one of these guys with backpack or cart containing dozens of discs (personal choice - if you choose to lug more discs, that's your call), so, for upshots, I have limited options. The up side of this is it has forced me to develop more control over the shot by, among other things, adjusting the amount of spin. With my midrange Gator and the techniques I've learned, I can shape a variety of flight paths that get the job done.