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Flatpad teepads

Flatpad

Bogey Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2022
Messages
72
Hi all,


We are manufacturing teepads. They are done from galvanized steel and designed to used with artificial turf. Currently we have five different sizes available.

Some features
- module based
- fast to install
- can be moved
- safe to use

Some video links to get a quick idea

https://youtu.be/WQMb8VlIr2w
https://youtu.be/B_KmvAKSu5Q

Just wanted to share our teepad design and hear your thoughts.
 
Interesting. I don't know if these are only meant to be temporary, but I know that with astroturf tees they can stay wet, hold mud and become slick. I don't know how you are backing the turf so it doesn't slip, but I would consider some way for the metal surface to drain water and help air out the turf.

Other thought is the height. The large tee takes care of this, but running up on a tee pad and having to jump up onto it adds a layer of complication. If there were a way to decrease the height and maintain the structure, that might be more popular.

Hope that helps. Sure you get some better informed opinions than mine.
 
Just wanted to share our teepad design and hear your thoughts.

1. Dangerous - since it apparently is designed to sit as much as 10-12 inches above the surrounding ground with the sides available for advertising according to one of the videos. Someone who steps or slips off the end could end up injured.

2. Cannot tell the dimensions. It seems that all but the largest size may be too small, but again, no dimensions are given.

3. In one video, you can see the carpet moving on the top of the smooth pad with the plant foot. That might not be an issue for some, but if the carpet were to tear at one of the self-drilling screws, that might end up in an injury.

4. Looks like it is fast and easy to install.

5. Looks way, way, way too expensive. Even with the recent change in fuel and material costs, I can get steel-framed, concrete tee pads that are movable for less than half the price. A poured-on-site concrete pad likely costs a tenth of the price in the US. Ground contact rated wood frames could be built and topped with ground contact plywood for much less money and would likely last just as long.

6. With that somewhat loose carpet and sand carried by players' shoes, that zinc plating is going to wear off and the relatively thin (16ga?) steel is going to weaken or rust through after a few years.

It is an interesting idea, but as long as you don't mind renting and operating a back hoe or suitably sized track hoe, it has nothing worth the price on movable concrete pads that don't need a carpet topping.
 
Lot's of comments here. Thanks.

I'll answer to the lasts post first.

1. It is not dangerous, actually just opposite. It's safe due on engineering there's been taken into account standards regarding for building safe sporting site and equipment's. Height is not a problem at all. Higher teepads are quite common in disc golf. Important aspect is that you have clear visual perception of the teepad, so you can see it and set your steps accordingly.

2. Sizes are given on the website. One module is 2 * 1 meters (6.56 feet * 3.28 feet), so depeding how many is installed the size can be adjusted. Biggest one we sell is 2 * 5 meters. So 6.56 feet * 16.4 feet. Length an be extended without limitation if needed.

3. Turf moving on the video is due missing sand on it. That's purely because teepad was installed to that place only for filming. Sanding of the turf is actually essential and needs to be done with right type of sand. Also amount and method how it's applied is very important. No issues when done correctly. Good that you pointed this out.

4. It is fast and easy to install. After some practice you can install the biggest one in less than half en hour. Can be installed on slopes, after digging some dirt to make the ground flat enough. Can be installed under ground partially too.

5. Pricing is always something to debate. Customers who are willing to pay for easy and fast installation don't complain about the price. This is available as a factory built product, without any planning of your own. So the value is built in to the products.

6. Engineering has chosen the right materials. So hot dip galvanized steel with thick enough coating. It is done by using standard's so no guessing on this. Standard's takes into account the surrounding air too. Our material is protected even dipped in sea water. So no need to worry about this.

For others. As said pricing is the one to debate. In the end customers will make the decisions based on the needs and also how they see the value. Of course it's important that the information given is right.

The installation can be done temporary or permanent. The platform is designed to be raised of the ground and airy. This is to ensure that water will flow away and ventilation over and around is achieved. Therefor water wont accumulate on it and after rain drying is rapid. We have installed and use this also in winter time. Actually in spring, sun's energy is enough to heat up the deck and dries out the snow. Also snow melts under so it's really lot of heat that absorbs on the teepad.

"18 hole course, dual tee pads...............$75,000 US dollars."

For this last one. I would argue that 18 hole course, dual teepads... Done in two days.

I hope that I managed to answer well enough. You can always ask more and I'm happy to answer them all. And thanks for the interest.
 
it's a great idea and a good design. If you could get your costs down or maybe experiment with different materials to do so I could see them being used. Cost is always going to be the number 1 factor especially in disc golf which is loaded with cheapskates.
 
Thanks for taking the time to answer some questions.

The product and idea look terrific. I don't think there is any way around the cost prohibitive nature of these pads, for most of disc golf, as it is set up today. My take is that most courses installed are on municipal land, done so by clubs and parks systems. I have been involved in many tee pad funding efforts and even concrete ones ($200 x 36 = $7200) are the biggest financial challenge. I was just at a random dubs, put on for the sole purpose of pad fund raising and raised $180. If the sport continues to see privatization and pay to play as the way forward, ventures like this could find a real foothold. I just don't see this kind of cost fitting into today's game. Only my opinion. I wish Flatpad well and hope we continue to see interest in our "industry".
 
Lot's of comments here. Thanks.

I'll answer to the lasts post first.

1. It is not dangerous, actually just opposite. It's safe due on engineering there's been taken into account standards regarding for building safe sporting site and equipment's. Height is not a problem at all. Higher teepads are quite common in disc golf. Important aspect is that you have clear visual perception of the teepad, so you can see it and set your steps accordingly.

. . .

You addressed all the other concerns and comments very well, but this one doesn't sit well with me.

The issue is whether anyone will step or slip off the tee pad, the issue is what happens when someone steps or slips off the tee pad. Whether or not you have a clear visual perception of the tee pad, you don't have a clear visual perception of it during the throw. If you've made a miscalculation, you will unexpectedly step off a tee pad that is high enough to cause injury.

I've seen people fall and one suffer a minor injury (ankle sprain) due to a 4" drop. I've fallen due to a 4-6" drop (though I haven't been injured thankfully). It's an obvious feature of your design that will be more likely the smaller the installer makes the tee pad.

It's an interesting product with one very important benefit - ease of installation. I recently designed a course that required the building of a heavier duty than necessary bridge to be able to put in concrete tee pads. Tee pads like these could have saved money due to the additional cost of the bridge that was put in over a simple footbridge that could have been build but for the equipment necessary to place the concrete tee pads. Of course, we could have built other types of tee pads, but the course owner wanted some consistency and was willing to pay for the additional bridge expense.

If I had used your pads, I would have built up the ground around them or set them in a hole to get rid of that step down issue.
 
I do not like raised tee pads at all.
On longer throws my momentum will often carry me beyond the pad. If a pad is raised I throw differently (little or no run up) to avoid going over much like a long approach shot with treacherous footing.:mad:

Also, I can't see a tee pad being 4 times the price of a quality basket.
 
I agree with Doof on the safety issue. I think that's a significant risk.

Where I could see these being used is for a (deep pocketed) tournament series that uses temp courses. Get a set of 18+ (allowing for some FPO only tees) for the DGPT along with a set of portable baskets and you can have a tourney virtually anywhere with enough open space. Probably use the largest size and put a foul line a foot or so from the front to limit people slipping off at the end of their drives. Would still give guys like Conrad with huge runups fits though.
 
Thanks guys for all the comments. Great to get good open conversation and also healthy criticism.

Seems like there's now two main points that are being critisized.

1. Safety.
This raised teepad seems to divide also elsewhere. Some hate those and others don't. I understand the possibility to step on edge. It can happen. But then there's also the other sides that this design fixes. For example water and friction in general. Ground based teepads can be sometimes slippery. They can be uneven on friction, thus difficult to predict.
Just by making the teepad big enough lowers the chance to step on edge. The biggest teepad that we make have even extra over stepping area, so if you follow your throw you still have space to stay on. Of course it is possible to dig the teepad into the ground, but then some of the other benefits are lost.

4.2Pro_9p.jpg


2. Price
As I said before we can always debate about the price. Market will tell in the end if products sell or not. If we could put aside the price completely and just see the products, if they are good or not. Then it would make more sense. To improve things someone need's to invest and do the experiment. It costs in the beginning a lot and in order to do healthy business you need to set the price accordingly. Disc golf in general is still small sport and there's lot things to evolve and it will. Also the money invested in to disc golf will definitely increase. So our price might seem high now for disc golf, or we might be too early with this products. Main thing still in my opinion is that the product it self is good and worth to get.

Just based on the feedback we have gotten, we know that these products are attractive for many. There's also new possibilities to find funding for the teepads, by placing ads on them. Clubs and others who might be interested could take advantage over this too.
 
Curious looking at these what deters someone from stealing them if they are placed out on a course? At such a high price point, and easy to assemble (and presumably disassemble since they are so mobile), is there anything to stop someone from just disassembling and stealing it when left outside?
 
Yes, there are some raised tee pads in tournaments. You should watch tournament videos, there are lots of complaints about raised tee pads. Watch James Conrad's run up.....he is one player who has tripped on raised tee pads - there's others. There's a video of someone falling off the end of a raised tee pad in a tournament...it was a while ago and I don't recall the year or course.

Cost. Way too expensive. There's lots of course builders/maintainers that have trouble just affording concrete tee pads, much less something this expensive.

For those two reasons, I don't see this as a feasible idea that will work out. But good luck - I hope you prove me wrong.
 
Curious looking at these what deters someone from stealing them if they are placed out on a course? At such a high price point, and easy to assemble (and presumably disassemble since they are so mobile), is there anything to stop someone from just disassembling and stealing it when left outside?

Seriously this is a thing? Out of all valuable stuff out there, somebody would steal our teepad? I can understand bicycles or car wheels, which can be sold for cash.

Anyways, to steal Flatpad. One needs to know exactly what to do. Yes, check the videos and you see how it is assembled. Maybe you need to steal right tools first to disassemble. Then you might want to have friend helping you to carry modules. They can be carried alone, but you need to be strong enough. Also remember to get something for transportation. So yes, can be stolen if one is determined to do so. You just need to have lot of will power to carry it out.
 
Yes, there are some raised tee pads in tournaments. You should watch tournament videos, there are lots of complaints about raised tee pads. Watch James Conrad's run up.....he is one player who has tripped on raised tee pads - there's others. There's a video of someone falling off the end of a raised tee pad in a tournament...it was a while ago and I don't recall the year or course.

Cost. Way too expensive. There's lots of course builders/maintainers that have trouble just affording concrete tee pads, much less something this expensive.

For those two reasons, I don't see this as a feasible idea that will work out. But good luck - I hope you prove me wrong.

Okay, I see the point you are making. Raised teepads might be a problem for some. Majority of people are not like James Conrad. And majority of fairways doesn't need so much speed on opening throw. So my point is, that we are offering a solution which solves many challenges and fits in to many courses. Not for all, but many or even most.

Same goes for concrete teepads too. They can't be used in every scenario. Let's take one example. Up north where frosting is a seasonal fact. Concrete teepad would be very labor and cost expensive in order to make durable enough. Otherwise it will crack over the winter.

Costs are again one thing which should be considered also including scaling factor. To scale you need to be able to deliver the products without adding costs per unit when making more. Flatpad is actually getting cheaper when scaling up, due manufacturing process. Concrete ones will do opposite. Those are machine and labor intensive, thus expensive to scale. Not to mention shipping costs at all.

Cost should also be considered how much they are per rounds played. As an example let's take one course nearby my location. Meri-Toppila Oulu Finland. https://udisc.com/courses/meri-toppila-3E4R
2021 Udisc has 14071 recorded rounds played. Udiscs estimates that only every fifth is recorded on their app. So actual played rounds would be 14071 * 5 = 70355. This course needs and update on teepads, so let's do them on using Flatpad Flat 4.2. The lifetime of Flatpad is more than 10 years, but let's use something lower like 5 years. After that period they would be renewed. To get all 18 hole done by Flatpad, the direct cost would be 18 * 1999€ / 2092$ = 35982€ / 37656$. Within 5-years there would be 70355 * 5 = 351775 rounds played. Direct costs divided by rounds played and direct costs per round would be 0,1€ / 0,1$. For me it doesn't sound expensive at all. On many courses there's actually round fee that you need to pay. By doing the math in this way you might see how it starts to make sense.

I'm not here to say that our products are one fits to all solution. I'm trying to explain how teepads can be done in a new way and how it's benefits the sport and people in and around it. I know that Flapad fits and works in various places. In many cases it's easily the best solution to choose.

Prices on our website includes VAT 24%. So for business buyers and for example US customers it would be deducted. Also we have priced in the re-seller's share. We would be happy to get a distributor and re-seller's in north America.
 
Interesting. I don't know if these are only meant to be temporary, but I know that with astroturf tees they can stay wet, hold mud and become slick. I don't know how you are backing the turf so it doesn't slip, but I would consider some way for the metal surface to drain water and help air out the turf.

This is a real concern, but can be mitigated somewhat by making sure the pad has a slight slope -- not enough to throw off players, but enough for water to drain.

We built a deck in the woods and put turf on it. Unfortunately, the volunteer who did it was a competent carpenter, and made it perfectly level, which wouldn't have happened if I'd been on the crew. Anyway, the turf holds water and gets slick, and being in the woods, is slow to dry.

When we later built some solid-surface tees with turf over them, we included a slight grade, and they don't retain water nearly as bad.

As for height, yes, drops on the front of the tee should be avoided. Local courses have added extensions in front of concrete tees with 4" drops. Our 2 raised tees include 4' of raised surface in front of the turf; anyone with the deep pockets to buy flatpads, should be able to afford one longer than the tee, to have a safe run-off.

That said, count me a skeptic; it's a too-expensive solution with too many issues.
 
Seriously this is a thing? Out of all valuable stuff out there, somebody would steal our teepad? I can understand bicycles or car wheels, which can be sold for cash.

Anyways, to steal Flatpad. One needs to know exactly what to do. Yes, check the videos and you see how it is assembled. Maybe you need to steal right tools first to disassemble. Then you might want to have friend helping you to carry modules. They can be carried alone, but you need to be strong enough. Also remember to get something for transportation. So yes, can be stolen if one is determined to do so. You just need to have lot of will power to carry it out.

So you just need tools, a friend, and a vehicle? Are they special assembly tools? That doesn't seem like a big deal if someone is going to steal something worth as much money as these are. I'm assuming the smaller ones can be stolen without any real disassembly.

And yes, I'm sure it would be a thing. People already open unlocked cars at disc golf courses to steal people's discs. They already will snatch baskets if they aren't secured. Any time you have a high value item that is specifically designed to be portable, the security of it is going to be a concern if you leave it out permanently in a public space.

What's the weight of the fully-assembled largest size?

I wouldn't be worried about someone stealing it if I put it on the course on my private property, but I might be concerned if I was a city putting them into my public course or something.

Just something to consider. I do see these as more likely a "set up today, take down today (or take down in a few days after a tournament)" type item, but if going for the "permanent tee pad" much larger market...the security of the product might be an issue to resolve.
 
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